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Who is coming up first from Rochester?

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#1 spideyo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

Anyone wanna take bets on who gets called up first from Rochester and when?


It's a pretty safe bet that Butera comes up if Mauer or Doumit goes down, but what about the rest of the position players?

#2 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

Considering De Vries left todays game with a forearm injury, I'll say PJ Walters is first up.

#3 spideyo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

Walters isn't on the 40 though, you'd have to take somebody off to make room. I'm hoping today's injury was just a bit of discomfort that they are being SUPER overly cautious about

#4 gil4

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:20 PM

Considering De Vries left todays game with a forearm injury, I'll say PJ Walters is first up.


I was going to say Deduno for the same reason. He has the same 40-man problem that Walters has, though, plus he has a minor injury of his own.

#5 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

Why are you even asking? Butera. No matter who goes down first.:)

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

#6 Rosterman

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Hernandez. But we will see Diamond and Swarzak, and then we will see whoever they replace again, first. And for position players, it is Benson or Hermann or Butera, depending on needs. We have two back-up infielders,so if someone goes down, no need to add to 40-man.
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#7 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

Butera is the guy for either Florimon or Dozier floundering or Ramirez not having a role.
Starting pitching wise, its Pedro Hernandez.

#8 PseudoSABR

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:43 PM

Unfortunately, Swarzak is a good guess.

#9 cmathewson

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

Deduno. Gibson. Hernandez.
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#10 bear333

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:43 PM

Anyone wanna take bets on who gets called up first from Rochester and when?


It's a pretty safe bet that Butera comes up if Mauer or Doumit goes down, but what about the rest of the position players?

It will be a pitcher, so will the 2nd and 3rd call ups. Maybe Swarzak. They will make room on the 40 for someone that can help so Deduno and Walters may be on their way too.

#11 bear333

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

Max Kepler

#12 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:56 AM

I think Deduno or Swarzak. If Deduno continues his success in Rochester, he'll be up quickly and on the 40 man. If he's still hurt and the need arises sooner, it will be Swarzak.

#13 Seth Stohs

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

Good, but tough question... Swarzak and Diamond will be off the DL in a short time, so they'll likely replace (De Vries or Hendriks) and (someone in the bullpen, though Swarzak could be DFAd since they'll likely want to keep Pressly). And Wood coming off the DL at some point will send someone else down.

It depends on how early it is and what the circumstances are.

Kyle Gibson will com up when he is deemed ready, regardless of what it means for others.

Walters/Deduno will have to really prove that they can help and they're needed due to them not being on the 40 man.

If they were to need a spot start, it could be Pedro Hernandez.

Obviously if one of the catchers is put on the DL, it will be Butera (as it should be).

I can't see a move from the minors in the infield or outfield... at least until mid-season and maybe Arcia is ready.

#14 3up3down

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

seth, it took all of 6 weeks last year for walters to be added to the 40 man, if the need arises TR isnt afraid to move guys off if they are not performing , he has made that pretty clear.. could be tomorrow or may be 2 months but its going to happen for walters & deduno.

#15 Jim H

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

A catcher doesn't need to be hurt for Butera to be called up. I think if Gardy thought he could get by with 11 pitchers, Butera will come up. If a Mauer or Doumit is slighty dinged up, Butera could come up. If Ramirez or Escobar can't find much playing time, Butera comes up. He is more than a Gardy security blanket. His presence means Mauer and Doumit can appear at other positions more often. It means that they can be used optimumly like they were last year, rather than one be forced to catch if they are sore, or slightly dinged or there is an opportunity to use them in the field.

It is also doubtfully that his presence actually hurts the team much. It probably means that Doumit and maybe even Mauer get more AB's, just not at catcher. Since Butera really only takes catching appearances away from the other 2, and mostly from Doumit, it is likely that the upgrade defensively pretty much cancels the loss in offense that some other 2nd stringer would provide over Butera.

#16 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

A catcher doesn't need to be hurt for Butera to be called up. I think if Gardy thought he could get by with 11 pitchers, Butera will come up. If a Mauer or Doumit is slighty dinged up, Butera could come up. If Ramirez or Escobar can't find much playing time, Butera comes up. He is more than a Gardy security blanket. His presence means Mauer and Doumit can appear at other positions more often. It means that they can be used optimumly like they were last year, rather than one be forced to catch if they are sore, or slightly dinged or there is an opportunity to use them in the field.

It is also doubtfully that his presence actually hurts the team much. It probably means that Doumit and maybe even Mauer get more AB's, just not at catcher. Since Butera really only takes catching appearances away from the other 2, and mostly from Doumit, it is likely that the upgrade defensively pretty much cancels the loss in offense that some other 2nd stringer would provide over Butera.


Sorry, can you give me an example of what you mean with the bolded part. I'm sure its just me, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by this.

#17 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

It is also doubtfully that his presence actually hurts the team much. It probably means that Doumit and maybe even Mauer get more AB's, just not at catcher. Since Butera really only takes catching appearances away from the other 2, and mostly from Doumit, it is likely that the upgrade defensively pretty much cancels the loss in offense that some other 2nd stringer would provide over Butera.


I presume your point is that, with Butera available, Gardenhire would feel comfortable putting both Doumit and Mauer in the game and not have to keep one on the bench in reserve in case the other goes down (and thus lose the DH for the balance of that game). Thus, while Butera's bat is a liability, having both Mauer and Doumit in the lineup compensates for that, and Butera is probably a better defensive catcher that Mauer and Doumit (I know some dispute that) so it would add defensively too.

Is that what you were getting at?

#18 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

I presume your point is that, with Butera available, Gardenhire would feel comfortable putting both Doumit and Mauer in the game and not have to keep one on the bench in reserve in case the other goes down (and thus lose the DH for the balance of that game). Thus, while Butera's bat is a liability, having both Mauer and Doumit in the lineup compensates for that, and Butera is probably a better defensive catcher that Mauer and Doumit (I know some dispute that) so it would add defensively too.

Is that what you were getting at?


Mauer and Doumit are going to be in the lineup at the same time whether Butera is up or not.

#19 Jim H

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

Since Mauer is the team's best hitter, he needs to be in the lineup as much as possible. Last year Doumit was the team's 5th best hitter so he needs to be in the lineup most of the time as well. It is likely that the best lineup the Twins can field has Mauer at catcher. But he can't catch every game. Mauer will catch as many games as he can, but the goal is to have him in the lineup nearly everyday. Since he can be used at 1B, DH and even RF, you can get him in the lineup as often as he is physically up to it.

Having Butera catch, doesn't have to take either Doumit or Mauer out of the lineup. If Morneau needs a day off, Mauer can go to 1B. Doumit can be at DH or even RF. Gardy was actually a bit creative at times last year. Nearly always, one of Mauer or Doumit was in the lineup with Butera, sometimes both. So that is what I mean when I said Butera didn't take AB's from Mauer or Doumit. It is possible that by keeping both fresher, his presence on the roster gave both more AB's than if he wasn't there. Because of their versatility and Gardy's willingness to use them at other positions than just catcher and DH.

The other aspect of this is that Butera probably doesn't take AB's from other regulars either. Morneau, Willingham and Parmelee will likely be in the lineup when they are healthy. When they need a day off, or perhaps maybe a tough lefthander is on the mound, Butera catches and Doumit and/or Mauer play in the field. So largely, if not exclusively, Butera took/will take AB's from other backups.

Finally, Butera is considered a better defensive catcher than Doumit. The upgrade defensively of playing Butera at catcher over Doumit will, at least to some degree cancel the loss of offense by playing Butera over some other backup.

One last point is that Butera doesn't play very often. There certainly could be some considerable benefit to having an extra PH on the bench to hit for the middle infielders late in games. I just suspect that getting more AB's to Doumit and perhaps Mauer by having Butera on the roster could be worth putting up with his lack of offense.

#20 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

Since Mauer is the team's best hitter, he needs to be in the lineup as much as possible. Last year Doumit was the team's 5th best hitter so he needs to be in the lineup most of the time as well. It is likely that the best lineup the Twins can field has Mauer at catcher. But he can't catch every game. Mauer will catch as many games as he can, but the goal is to have him in the lineup nearly everyday. Since he can be used at 1B, DH and even RF, you can get him in the lineup as often as he is physically up to it.

Having Butera catch, doesn't have to take either Doumit or Mauer out of the lineup. If Morneau needs a day off, Mauer can go to 1B. Doumit can be at DH or even RF. Gardy was actually a bit creative at times last year. Nearly always, one of Mauer or Doumit was in the lineup with Butera, sometimes both. So that is what I mean when I said Butera didn't take AB's from Mauer or Doumit. It is possible that by keeping both fresher, his presence on the roster gave both more AB's than if he wasn't there. Because of their versatility and Gardy's willingness to use them at other positions than just catcher and DH.

The other aspect of this is that Butera probably doesn't take AB's from other regulars either. Morneau, Willingham and Parmelee will likely be in the lineup when they are healthy. When they need a day off, or perhaps maybe a tough lefthander is on the mound, Butera catches and Doumit and/or Mauer play in the field. So largely, if not exclusively, Butera took/will take AB's from other backups.

Finally, Butera is considered a better defensive catcher than Doumit. The upgrade defensively of playing Butera at catcher over Doumit will, at least to some degree cancel the loss of offense by playing Butera over some other backup.

One last point is that Butera doesn't play very often. There certainly could be some considerable benefit to having an extra PH on the bench to hit for the middle infielders late in games. I just suspect that getting more AB's to Doumit and perhaps Mauer by having Butera on the roster could be worth putting up with his lack of offense.


Thanks for clarifying that, but I disagree.
The backup that would see the most playing time in your scenario would be Mastrionni, who I consider a significant upgrade over Butera.

#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Since Mauer is the team's best hitter, he needs to be in the lineup as much as possible. Last year Doumit was the team's 5th best hitter so he needs to be in the lineup most of the time as well. It is likely that the best lineup the Twins can field has Mauer at catcher. But he can't catch every game. Mauer will catch as many games as he can, but the goal is to have him in the lineup nearly everyday. Since he can be used at 1B, DH and even RF, you can get him in the lineup as often as he is physically up to it.

Having Butera catch, doesn't have to take either Doumit or Mauer out of the lineup. If Morneau needs a day off, Mauer can go to 1B. Doumit can be at DH or even RF. Gardy was actually a bit creative at times last year. Nearly always, one of Mauer or Doumit was in the lineup with Butera, sometimes both. So that is what I mean when I said Butera didn't take AB's from Mauer or Doumit. It is possible that by keeping both fresher, his presence on the roster gave both more AB's than if he wasn't there. Because of their versatility and Gardy's willingness to use them at other positions than just catcher and DH.

The other aspect of this is that Butera probably doesn't take AB's from other regulars either. Morneau, Willingham and Parmelee will likely be in the lineup when they are healthy. When they need a day off, or perhaps maybe a tough lefthander is on the mound, Butera catches and Doumit and/or Mauer play in the field. So largely, if not exclusively, Butera took/will take AB's from other backups.

Finally, Butera is considered a better defensive catcher than Doumit. The upgrade defensively of playing Butera at catcher over Doumit will, at least to some degree cancel the loss of offense by playing Butera over some other backup.

One last point is that Butera doesn't play very often. There certainly could be some considerable benefit to having an extra PH on the bench to hit for the middle infielders late in games. I just suspect that getting more AB's to Doumit and perhaps Mauer by having Butera on the roster could be worth putting up with his lack of offense.

Or, Gardy could just get over his fear of losing the DH for, at most, one game. Either way works.

#22 jokin

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

Or, Gardy could just get over his fear of losing the DH for, at most, one game. Either way works.


I prefer the condensed version.

#23 Jim H

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

I am still not sure if I explained my point very well. I hope so. I think that maybe having Butera catch around 30 games means that Mauer and Doumit are less dinged up. That should make them more productive. It might mean that they actually appear in more games(just less at catcher) then they would if Butera were not on the roster. It is certainly possible to dispute that take.

I also not sure that even if I am largely right, that it justifies Butera's place on the roster. Still, he may be enough better defensively to justify having him on the roster over Hermann or some other 3rd catcher. The possible contributions of a 2nd utility infielder or a bench bat may be more valuable than keeping Mauer and/or Doumit a little fresher and getting them a few more AB's. Still, I won't be surprised if Butera is back on the 25 man in a month or so.

#24 jokin

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

Still, I won't be surprised if Butera is back on the 25 man in a month or so.


Sadly, if there is some truth to the point that past is only prologue, Drew will be back to accumulating days for his major league pension very soon, indeed- probably the first extra inning game without Gardy's security blanket will spur the call to Roc.

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

I am still not sure if I explained my point very well. I hope so. I think that maybe having Butera catch around 30 games means that Mauer and Doumit are less dinged up. That should make them more productive. It might mean that they actually appear in more games(just less at catcher) then they would if Butera were not on the roster. It is certainly possible to dispute that take.

I also not sure that even if I am largely right, that it justifies Butera's place on the roster. Still, he may be enough better defensively to justify having him on the roster over Hermann or some other 3rd catcher. The possible contributions of a 2nd utility infielder or a bench bat may be more valuable than keeping Mauer and/or Doumit a little fresher and getting them a few more AB's. Still, I won't be surprised if Butera is back on the 25 man in a month or so.


What you're really saying is that Mauer is no longer capable of being a full time catcher. Rather than admit that, and move him permanently to somewhere he could play every day, the Twins will (and should) force a third catcher who cannot be used in any other role onto a roster that in this day and age of 12-man pitching staffs is already down to a bare minimum of bench spots. Do I have that right?

#26 Shane Wahl

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

I will just be optimistic and say Colabello or Herrmann, for players, and Hernandez or Walters (or maybe Watts or Pugh, but I don't worry too much about the 'pen at the moment).

#27 Riverbrian

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

I am still not sure if I explained my point very well. I hope so. I think that maybe having Butera catch around 30 games means that Mauer and Doumit are less dinged up. That should make them more productive. It might mean that they actually appear in more games(just less at catcher) then they would if Butera were not on the roster. It is certainly possible to dispute that take.

I also not sure that even if I am largely right, that it justifies Butera's place on the roster. Still, he may be enough better defensively to justify having him on the roster over Hermann or some other 3rd catcher. The possible contributions of a 2nd utility infielder or a bench bat may be more valuable than keeping Mauer and/or Doumit a little fresher and getting them a few more AB's. Still, I won't be surprised if Butera is back on the 25 man in a month or so.


Jim... I understand what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree with you. A good defensive catcher has value.

To me it's a question of how many roster spots you take up using 3 catchers.

#28 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

I am still not sure if I explained my point very well. I hope so. I think that maybe having Butera catch around 30 games means that Mauer and Doumit are less dinged up. That should make them more productive. It might mean that they actually appear in more games(just less at catcher) then they would if Butera were not on the roster. It is certainly possible to dispute that take.

I also not sure that even if I am largely right, that it justifies Butera's place on the roster. Still, he may be enough better defensively to justify having him on the roster over Hermann or some other 3rd catcher. The possible contributions of a 2nd utility infielder or a bench bat may be more valuable than keeping Mauer and/or Doumit a little fresher and getting them a few more AB's. Still, I won't be surprised if Butera is back on the 25 man in a month or so.


But you shouldnt need a 3rd catcher in order to keep both Mauer and Doumit fresh.
If Doumit's primary position were 1B or RF or something, I could see your point.
But Doumits primary position (DH) already has him sitting on the bench for 17/18ths of the game. He should be plenty rested when the days come that he needs to catch.

#29 jokin

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

. A good defensive catcher has value.


Agreed. Let's get a couple.

#30 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:14 PM

Updates on De Vries and Hendriks, courtesy of LENIII, http://www.startribu.../200725991.html
De Vries feels fine today, still on track to start next Saturday.
Hendriks will pitch in a minor league game tomorrow and should be good to go on Friday.