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Mauer in Two-Hole

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#1 jay

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

LEN3 has today's lineup posted and it shows something many of us have longed for:
1. Aaron Hicks, CF
2. Joe Mauer, C
3. Josh Willingham, LF
4. Justin Morneau, 1B
5. Ryan Doumit, DH
6. Trevor Plouffe, 3B
7, Chris Parmelee, RF
8. Eduardo Escobar, 2B
9. Pedro Florimon, SS

Joe Mauer, batting 2nd!?!

Given that the roster is basically set, what's our best lineup? I like this, but mostly likely with Dozier in at 2nd and Escobar/Carroll filling in up the middle frequently.

#2 Physics Guy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

Most likely Gardy isn't as comfy with Escobar at #2 as he is Dozier. I still fully expect Dozier at #2, but would prefer the above with Dozier instead of Escobar.

#3 Ultima Ratio

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

Please Gardybear, keep this lineup throughout the season, and bat Dozier in the 8 hole when he plays.
Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

#4 PseudoSABR

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

Morneau scratched from the lineup (back tightness), Wilkin Ramirez takes over RF, Parm moving to 1B.

#5 jokin

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

Morneau scratched from the lineup (back tightness), Wilkin Ramirez takes over RF, Parm moving to 1B.


The first time Wally Pipp sat was innocuous enough, but doubtful that Parm is Iron Horse 2.

#6 spycake

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:46 PM

I like this lineup. At the very least, if used only for Escobar, it would indicate a break from the strict "batting order by position" stuff, which made Mike Redmond a semi-regular #3 hitter for a few years.

#7 Please

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

Play second...bat second. Gardy 101

#8 ashburyjohn

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:04 PM

If there was any credit given to Correia for 5 good innings in that game, I missed it.

#9 Willihammer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:31 AM

Correia did save his only strikeout for the right time, I'll give him that.

Otherwise it was a lot of batted balls that found gloves and not holes or seats. Do we credit him for that?

#10 Willihammer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:02 AM

After hearing Bert go on about how defense likes pitchers who work quickly, I pulled the last 3 years of qualified starter pacing and FDP-Win values to see if there was any indication of a relationship. Looks like not.

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#11 jay

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

Don't get carried away here. Next you're going to tell us that a team's best relief pitcher shouldn't be solely reserved for pitching the ninth inning while starting with no runners on and a lead. Blasphemy!

#12 Shane Wahl

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

Dozier cannot bat second. There is no reason to do that, but I am sure Gardy will say something about "balance" in the lineup. Which is just plain stupid. If Dozier is worthy, in Gardy's eyes, of batting second, then putting him 8th instead seems like a more "balanced" approach.

#13 raindog

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

If there was any credit given to Correia for 5 good innings in that game, I missed it.

Five innings of spring training baseball.

#14 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:45 AM

Five innings of spring training baseball.


We discuss innings of spring baseball for others. I'm hardly on record advocating Correia's signing, and I'm not doing handsprings now over this game. But the stony silence when things go well for him ... I dunno, I just felt like pointing it out. We do root for him to do well for the team, right? That's more important to me than being right about the $10M looking like a subpar investment in the offseason.

#15 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

We discuss innings of spring baseball for others. I'm hardly on record advocating Correia's signing, and I'm not doing handsprings now over this game. But the stony silence when things go well for him ... I dunno, I just felt like pointing it out. We do root for him to do well for the team, right? That's more important to me than being right about the $10M looking like a subpar investment in the offseason.


Only if you think that 1 K over 5 innings is a good start.
Sometimes guys don't pitch well and things work out okay in the runs category. Sure, getting lucky might help you win that day, but over the course of a season, it's not a recipe for success.

#16 CDog

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

We do root for him to do well for the team, right? That's more important to me than being right about the $10M looking like a subpar investment in the offseason.


Some folks have been and continue to be quite up front and open about their hope for failure for certain people to "prove their point." Others you can find it in nuance and subtext. But there are certainly a fair amount of instances where their honest answer to your question could only be a resounding "No."

#17 Riverbrian

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

I watched Correia pitch last night... He only struck out one but he did produce a bunch of charity hop grounders. If anyone got the impression that the Red Sox were hitting darts around the park that just happened to be caught... I would disagree.

I won't complain about Correia until he actually gives me reason to... That time hasn't come yet.

#18 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

We discuss innings of spring baseball for others. I'm hardly on record advocating Correia's signing, and I'm not doing handsprings now over this game. But the stony silence when things go well for him ... I dunno, I just felt like pointing it out. We do root for him to do well for the team, right? That's more important to me than being right about the $10M looking like a subpar investment in the offseason.


I concur; there does seem to be a double standard based on whether we think an acquisition is a good one or not. If good performances are ignored, using the argument it is only ST, than we should be ignoring the bad ones as well. If we want to gripe and moan about a bad ST performance, than we should be just as willing to compliment a good one.

#19 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

I watched Correia pitch last night... He only struck out one but he did produce a bunch of charity hop grounders. If anyone got the impression that the Red Sox were hitting darts around the park that just happened to be caught... I would disagree.

I won't complain about Correia until he actually gives me reason to... That time hasn't come yet.

I agree, I was mildly impressed with his performance last night. Not a lot of good swings by the Sox, IMO. That being said, I like to get my complaining in ahead of time!

#20 Willihammer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

Some folks have been and continue to be quite up front and open about their hope for failure for certain people to "prove their point." Others you can find it in nuance and subtext. But there are certainly a fair amount of instances where their honest answer to your question could only be a resounding "No."


There's another subtext which seems to be saying that no praise for a 5 IP, 5 H, 1 BB, 1 K line is equivalent to complaining, but I don't see any Correia complaininig in this thread, only tempered praise for a guy who carried a ~7 ERA into yesterday's start and left with a 5.4. Not to mention, the Twins lost 6-1 and the offense stunk. There just weren't any positives to take out of yesterday's game really, unless you're a Boston fan.

#21 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

There's another subtext which seems to be saying that no praise for a 5 IP, 5 H, 1 BB, 1 K line is equivalent to complaining,


I don't know if you mean my post in particular, but I was more motivated by a perceived double standard. I doubt if such a pitching line would have drawn no comment had it been Deduno's name beside it, or Gibson's. Or Slama's. :)

#22 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

I do hope this is hte lineup going forward (though with Dozier hitting in place of Escobar). I could see some swapping around guys if Morneau and Parmalee get off to hot starts, but beyond that, I like it.

#23 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

That being said, I like to get my complaining in ahead of time!


Right, and I have no sympathy for second-guessers and bandwagon-hoppers. If Correia goes 16-9 with a 3.50 ERA there will be plenty of people saying they knew it all the time. Not me; I'll tip my cap to Ryan for spotting a pony in the pile that I missed. And if instead his photo wearing a Twins cap goes into the dictionary beside the word "mediocre", then we can ask Ryan to give several of us props. :)

#24 Willihammer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

I don't know if you mean my post in particular, but I was more motivated by a perceived double standard. I doubt if such a pitching line would have drawn no comment had it been Deduno's name beside it, or Gibson's. Or Slama's. :)

It was vintage Correia though. You can almost roll a die and fill in the H and R in any given boxscore. He's a low walk, low strikeout, PTC guy and that's what he did yesterday. I don't know how much commentary can be made. If Deduno had done it, people would comment how un-Deduno like it was. If Gibson did it, people would probably wonder where his strikeouts went while praising him for finding the strikezone. It would be much more comment-worthy if it came from one of those guys, that's why you would see more comments.

#25 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:19 PM

I don't know how much commentary can be made.


A lot less than I wound up getting, and I wasn't even trolling, honest.

[SIZE=1]/ except the part about Slama[/SIZE]

Edited by ashburyjohn, 29 March 2013 - 03:21 PM.


#26 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

Right, and I have no sympathy for second-guessers and bandwagon-hoppers. If Correia goes 16-9 with a 3.50 ERA there will be plenty of people saying they knew it all the time. Not me; I'll tip my cap to Ryan for spotting a pony in the pile that I missed. And if instead his photo wearing a Twins cap goes into the dictionary beside the word "mediocre", then we can ask Ryan to give several of us props. :)


If Correia's photo ends up in the dictionary beside the word "mediocre," I'll jump for joy. That's his extreme upside.

#27 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:50 PM

To get this thread back to who hits second, the Twins posted their projected starting lineup for Monday's opener on their website.

Mauer batting 3rd, folks, with Dozier 2nd.

#28 raindog

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

Sorry to hijack this thread further, but I had to respond to this.

Some folks have been and continue to be quite up front and open about their hope for failure for certain people to "prove their point." Others you can find it in nuance and subtext. But there are certainly a fair amount of instances where their honest answer to your question could only be a resounding "No."

I would absolutely love to see Correia prove me wrong. I want to look like an idiot after he wins 15 games with a sub-4 ERA. Just about anyone here would feel the same.

#29 10PagesOfClearBlueSky

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:12 PM

Some folks have been and continue to be quite up front and open about their hope for failure for certain people to "prove their point." Others you can find it in nuance and subtext. But there are certainly a fair amount of instances where their honest answer to your question could only be a resounding "No."


It's sometimes frustrating when people translate statistical analysis into emotional cynicism. I'm not saying that fans shouldn't be realistic or critical about moves they don't like. I just enjoy a bit of HOPE mixed in with projected wOBA and FIP.

#30 Shane Wahl

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

To get this thread back to who hits second, the Twins posted their projected starting lineup for Monday's opener on their website.

Mauer batting 3rd, folks, with Dozier 2nd.


I saw that, but that isn't the Twins org. (Gardy) posting that. It's a projection by whoever was charged with doing it for the Twins MLB site.

There's still hope.