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Tubby Out

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#1 Musk21

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

Tubby Smith out at Minnesota - CBSSports.com

Shaka Smart? Flip? Who's it going to be?
If Twins can't re-sign Hunter, plans are to trade, sign a FA or go in-house to find a replacement.

#2 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

That would be a terrible move for Shaka to make.

#3 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

Not surprising to see Tubby fired. Sad, but not surprising, and a move that had to be made, IMO. Personally, if I saw one more botched inbounds play, or watched another Rodney Williams stand on the wing, 30 ft from the basket, with his feet glued to the floor looking to get rid of the ball because he's terrified of making a mistake, I might have poked my eyes out. I will say, it seems like the U could have handled this better...I realize this is a twitter world we live in, but jeez, couldn't you have kept this under wraps until you've told the man face to face?

#4 spycake

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:51 PM

So, with a year left on Glen Mason's contract, the Gophers gave him a four-year extension. And then fired him after that year anyway.

With two years left on Tim Brewster's contract, they gave him a two-year extension (although they lowered the buyout). Then they fired him 7 games later.

With two years left on Tubby Smith's contract, they gave him a three-year extension, including a raise and an increased buyout amount. Then they fired him after the next season.

(I think they extended Dan Monson at some point too -- they had to pay him a considerable buyout upon dismissal.)

At least they had the good sense to give Jerry Kill an ~8 year contract, to delay the inevitable extend-then-fire process.

#5 luke829

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:47 PM

Flip would be the obvious choice (as well as the one that would create the most media frenzy). Thing is, would he be any better than Tubby in the long run?
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#6 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:43 PM

Good post about the extensions spy, that is maybe the most ridiculous angle of this.

#7 drjim

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:43 PM

With two years left on Tubby Smith's contract, they gave him a three-year extension, including a raise and an increased buyout amount. Then they fired him after the next season.


This is actually not completely true. The extension Tubby signed gave him more incentive pay (for each round of the NCAA that he reached), but it dropped his buyout from $3m to $2.5m.

It was time for him to go. Good man and the program is in better shape than we he came six years ago, but it was stagnant at best and probably headed for a slide in the next couple of years. Now we get to see what Teague is made of.
Papers...business papers.

#8 spycake

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:18 PM

This is actually not completely true. The extension Tubby signed gave him more incentive pay (for each round of the NCAA that he reached), but it dropped his buyout from $3m to $2.5m.

What's your source on that? Everything I read says Tubby's extension increased the buyout from $1.5 to $2.5 mil:

Tubby Smith contract extension with Gophers includes $2.5M buyout max - ESPN

Tubby Smith extension details: Salary goes up, buyout goes up, will review at the end of season. | StarTribune.com

#9 drjim

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

What's your source on that? Everything I read says Tubby's extension increased the buyout from $1.5 to $2.5 mil:

Tubby Smith contract extension with Gophers includes $2.5M buyout max - ESPN

Tubby Smith extension details: Salary goes up, buyout goes up, will review at the end of season. | StarTribune.com


I got it off the radio but I won't argue with your links. That is a fiasco.
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#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

Jesus....I didn't think it was that bad. What did Tubby have on the gopher administration? Anything short of nude photos just wouldn't explain that kind of extortion.

#11 twinsnorth49

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

Definitely time for Tubby to go, his recruiting has always been spotty at best but in his defense, it's going to continue to be a tough grind until a practice facility gets built for his successor.

The team underachieved last year and particularly this year with Mbakwe back for a 6th year. No leadership, lack of discipline on the court, terrible use of his bench for most of the season and seemingly a real inability to get his teams to adjust when faced with difficult situations.

#12 twinsnorth49

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:30 PM

Jesus....I didn't think it was that bad. What did Tubby have on the gopher administration? Anything short of nude photos just wouldn't explain that kind of extortion.


No extortion necessary, just Joel Maturi as an AD, one of many financial fiascos.

#13 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

You should back up a dump truck full of cash to Shaka Smart's house.

#14 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

Not to derail this thread but with the U of MN out, anyone pulling for any particular team? It was exciting to be in Ft. Myers and have the FGCU Eagles do so amazing ... what a fun team to watch!

#15 spycake

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:39 AM

No extortion necessary, just Joel Maturi as an AD, one of many financial fiascos.

Actually, this extension was Norwood Teague's doing. (Although I suspect it was partially influenced by the AD change, with the new AD using the extension as a vote of confidence for Tubby. Not sure what good a vote of confidence is when you don't have confidence, though.)

Going into the last year of a coach's contract has been off-limits for awhile now -- remember the kerfuffle around Glen Mason with one year to go? And that was for a non-elite coach/program. The coach and their staff always need security beyond one year.

What's interesting is that anticipating the above effect, going into the last two years of a coach's contract is now almost unthinkable. Brewster got a token extension at that point, and Tubby got his big extension with two years left too.

I expect that any day now, Jerry Kill will require an extension beyond the five years remaining on his deal.

#16 biggentleben

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

I expect that any day now, Jerry Kill will require an extension beyond the five years remaining on his deal.


And he would deserve every single penny of it.
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#17 Musk21

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

And he would deserve every single penny of it.


For what? 6-7 (2-6 in the Big Ten) and an appearance in the Meineke Car Care Bowl?
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#18 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

I just hope one day they can be on the sa[COLOR=#3E3E3E]me level as the [/COLOR][COLOR=#3E3E3E]mighty[/COLOR] powerhouse that is North Carolina Football[COLOR=#3E3E3E].[/COLOR]

#19 biggentleben

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

For what? 6-7 (2-6 in the Big Ten) and an appearance in the Meineke Car Care Bowl?


He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.
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#20 Musk21

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.


Maybe so, but it seems to be in the same position it was in '08 and '09. After a disastrous '07 under Brewster using Mason's players, the Gophers were 7-6 (3-5) and 6-7 (3-5) in '08 & '09 with berths in the Insight Bowl.

Hope you're right...But when your only Big Ten wins are against Purdue and Illinois and your 2013 recruiting class ranks last for the 2nd straight year, color me unimpressed.
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#21 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

Jerry Kill LOL

#22 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

I would say Flip or Howland. I think Howland would be my preference.

#23 kab21

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.


I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.

#24 biggentleben

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:42 PM

I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.


I was excited initially about Brewster's recruiting acumen, but his coaching never took hold. Coach Mason always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and under-recruited to show how great a coach he was. Coach Wacker was solid, but seemed to lack that killer instinct. Time will show once Kill has the players to fit his system, but he is incredibly well-thought-of within national circles. I was told by one former Ohio State player that he would have been a big fan of Kill being hired there, which says volumes about his respect in the game.
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#25 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.

#26 biggentleben

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.


Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.
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#27 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:13 AM

Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.


Feel free to bump it the year the Gophers finally become relevant in college football.

#28 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.

#29 biggentleben

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.


Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.
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#30 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:14 PM

Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.


But why?
What is the harm in playing UNC? You might lose? Why is he so afraid to lose a non conference game?
There is only one answer to that, its that he thinks going 2-6 in the Big 10 and "earning" a meaningless bowl bid is some kind of accomplishment. It's not. It's an embarrassment to college football, IMO, that a team can go 2-6 in their conference and make a bowl game.

And being a good guy, and being accountable and all that is great, but none of that matters if you don't win.
He's not a volunteer coach of a PeeWee team, he's being paid millions of dollars.

Again, I'm going to give him his fair chance. But so far, I've yet to talk to anyone who can give me a single convincing MEASURABLE reason why he's doing a good job.
I'm not talking about his attitude, or his accountability or anything like that. I'm talking about something on the field, or on the recruiting trail.
I understand that rating recruits is a murky science at best, but seeing the worst ranked recruiting class back to back years is worrisome.