Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Bollinger: Herrmann Hopes to break camp as 3rd catcher

  • Please log in to reply
106 replies to this topic

#21 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 831 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

Good lord, get a sense of humour. We're talking about baseball, since when did that equate to growing up?


I have a fine sense of humor, there is nothing funny in denigrating people. I would love to see Leviathan in the batters box against Drew Butera pitching. I think that could be real funny. The venom spewed forth this winter by people on this site. It is only baseball

#22 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,497 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:37 PM

I have a fine sense of humor, there is nothing funny in denigrating people. I would love to see Leviathan in the batters box against Drew Butera pitching. I think that could be real funny. The venom spewed forth this winter by people on this site. It is only baseball


I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.

#23 LaBombo

LaBombo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,312 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

Actually, in his brief callup Herrmann didn't show that he can hit better than Butera. Still, Herrmann is young and probably needs work on both his offense and defense. I suspect that he will never be more than a big league backup, but it is too early to make that call. I think he needs to be at AAA working on his game. I also think that for the couple of extra hits Herrmann might provide over the 100-150 AB's that Butera will get, well I'd rather have Butera. He is clearly the beter defensive catcher, right now.


I'm all for having Herrmann start in AAA rather than catch one game a week with the Twins. But the idea that 18 at bats shows anything about a player sounds pretty far-fetched to me. I'd rather trust 1500 minor league AB's that say Herrmann has a good chance to put up an OPS at least 100 points higher than Butera's in the majors.

#24 LaBombo

LaBombo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,312 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:15 AM

Might have something to do with the country they reside in and the amount of winter league ball they played.


A possibility I acknowledged in my next post. But their winter ball league ended in mid-January. Also, Dozier played a little in the Venezuelan winter league.

As I said, I don't place much stock in who shows up early, or really any other story from week one of spring training other than injuries. But since the middle infield is basically an open casting call this year, it's a little surprising that they weren't there early to collect some easy brownie points. This has zero meaning to me about their motivation, preparation or anything else.

#25 YourHouseIsMyHouse

YourHouseIsMyHouse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,235 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

I think Herrmann could potentially be more valuable than Doumit at home plate. At least I hope so. The one article posted here about Doumit's squeeze costing us 20 runs really affected my view on him. Is Herrmann much better behind the plate? I doubt he's a significant upgrade, but I hope it's the other way around. Both SHOULD be able to produce with the bat, but I do like the Doumit can switch hit.

#26 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,897 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.


You said he has a scholarship like he doesn't deserve the money he makes. Butera does not decide where he plays. He comes to work and does his job, others decide when and where and thus how much he gets paid. No where have I ever read where there is a problem with his work ethic. If he was the personal catcher for some pitchers then he must have been doing something right.

#27 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,497 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

You said he has a scholarship like he doesn't deserve the money he makes. Butera does not decide where he plays. He comes to work and does his job, others decide when and where and thus how much he gets paid. No where have I ever read where there is a problem with his work ethic. If he was the personal catcher for some pitchers then he must have been doing something right.


The scholarship reference has been used for over a year on BYTO and TD. It's in reference to roster spots as the Twins stated that there would be no more "scholarships" and roster spots would need to be earned. Though I'd also argue that Butera isn't earning his pay either, hard to do that when you are historically inept at what you do.

An MLB bench should be versatile and capable. Butera is half capable at best, whereas at least Hermann is versatile and (in all likelihood) a more capable all around player.

#28 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,897 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

The scholarship reference has been used for over a year on BYTO and TD. It's in reference to roster spots as the Twins stated that there would be no more "scholarships" and roster spots would need to be earned. Though I'd also argue that Butera isn't earning his pay either, hard to do that when you are historically inept at what you do.

An MLB bench should be versatile and capable. Butera is half capable at best, whereas at least Hermann is versatile and (in all likelihood) a more capable all around player.


I don't give a rat's ass when the term scholarship was first used. The point it it is used in regards to Butera. Doesn't change facts Butera is a poor hitter and he has a roster spot. . He has been a poor hitter his whole career. Whoever makes the decisions on the Twins roster knows that. Butera has a spot because someone wants three catchers and Butera has earned that spot over other players. When Hermann shows he is better than Butera, Butera will be demoted. Hermann has not shown that at the major league or the AAA level. Butera at least has earned his money. No one criticizes his effort. The lack of effort like Valencia showed is what brought out the scholarship quote.

#29 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,497 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

I don't give a rat's ass when the term scholarship was first used.


Well, perhaps you should so you don't ignorantly reply to posts referencing it. The rest of your post really doesn't warrant a response.

#30 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,712 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

The reason to push Herman is that our current third catcher is totally inept at a crucial portion of the game.


Haha. Well in that case he should have been promoted to Rochester midway through last season. There was no reason not to other than to see Herrmann and Hicks operate 1-2 in the order successfully. Herrmann's time is coming though.

#31 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,136 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Butera isn't a terrible hitter. He's historically bad.

That said, I'd still rather have him on the roster than Herrmann. Herrmann isn't ready. One could argue that Butera isn't either, but Herrmann has a chance to be ready if he continues his development, and I see no reason to risk that development, even if it means he ends up as a backup catcher.

I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.

#32 schalaky

schalaky

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

Butera has awesome hair. Maybe that's all it takes to warrant a cather's roster spot?

#33 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,497 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:12 PM

I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.


I don't buy this argument. If Carlos Gomez was still here and playing a phenomenal CF then this argument makes sense. His defense makes up for the inadequate play of our corner OFs, but catching - not so much. It's a one man job.

Hell, petition MLB to let Butera catch and Mauer hit for him for 9 innings and we kill two birds with one stone! But in order for his defense to play, he has to hit and that hurts the team.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 17 February 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#34 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 831 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. I leave you to guess what I think is insane and inane.

Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.


Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.

#35 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 831 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Butera isn't a terrible hitter. He's historically bad.

That said, I'd still rather have him on the roster than Herrmann. Herrmann isn't ready. One could argue that Butera isn't either, but Herrmann has a chance to be ready if he continues his development, and I see no reason to risk that development, even if it means he ends up as a backup catcher.

I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.


Glass half full optimism says in 48 AB under the watchful eye of Bruno Butera did well at the plate last year. Statistics whizs will have an argument with you, but one never knows.

#36 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,497 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.


Then it appears that "the guy's" assessment was right.

#37 raykinsella

raykinsella

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

What a novel idea it would be to carry a third catcher that could play other positions and hit above .186.

#38 Pius Jefferson

Pius Jefferson

    Master of the Obvious

  • Members
  • 510 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:27 PM

Good lord, bastardizing people's names as a way to ridicule them. We did that in grade school. We also grew out of it



Welcome to the internet. The grade school lunch room only wishes it could be so immature.

#39 glunn

glunn

    Head Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,877 posts
  • LocationBeverly Hills, CA

Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.


Please my brothers. You both have valid perspectives about Butera. Let's focus on baseball, not each other.

#40 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,897 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:45 PM

I don't buy this argument. If Carlos Gomez was still here and playing a phenomenal CF then this argument makes sense. His defense makes up for the inadequate play of our corner OFs, but catching - not so much. It's a one man job.

Hell, petition MLB to let Butera catch and Mauer hit for him for 9 innings and we kill two birds with one stone! But in order for his defense to play, he has to hit and that hurts the team.

There is just a little difference between being the starting centerfielder and third string catcher