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Obama's SOTU address tonight

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#1 luke829

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:05 PM

I'm not normally one to follow all of the political rhetoric on the 'tube, in print, or online, but there's always a first for everything. Curious how he'll come across on some of the key issues (guns and immigration come to mind right off the bat).
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#2 PseudoSABR

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

If his inauguration address was any indication, the speech will be boldly liberal. I'm interested to see if he mentions Drones or N Korea.

#3 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

Haven't been able to pay attention much, but it's about time someone started holding colleges accountable for college costs. We'll see how much of that is rhetoric, but it baffles me to this day how people don't understand why college costs are rising. The federal government has borderline given them a blank check.

#4 PseudoSABR

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

It was certainly liberal, but it wasn't nearly as aggressive and partisan as I was lead to believe. There's lots of issue that really shouldn't be partisan and Obama highlighted quite a few.

What do people feel about connecting the minimum wage to the cost of living? It's a just idea, in it's spirit, but it's practical affect on low wage-paying business's capacity to turn profit is unknown to me. Though I can see how it would affect public corporations (box stores, fast food, etc.) stock worth.

#5 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

I'm always wary of raising the minimum wage too significantly because the cost of doing that will impact consumers. I'm not sure there is much of a net-gain there, but I'm far from well-versed on the numbers.

#6 glunn

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:22 AM

If his inauguration address was any indication, the speech will be boldly liberal. I'm interested to see if he mentions Drones or N Korea.


He mentioned both -- accountability regarding drones and the need to clamp down on North Korea. I am not sure how sincere he was about the drones, but he did cover both of these topics.

#7 glunn

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

Haven't been able to pay attention much, but it's about time someone started holding colleges accountable for college costs. We'll see how much of that is rhetoric, but it baffles me to this day how people don't understand why college costs are rising. The federal government has borderline given them a blank check.


Here is what he said:

[COLOR=#000080]Through tax credits, grants, and better loans, we have made college more affordable for millions of students and families over the last few years. But taxpayers cannot continue to subsidize the soaring cost of higher education. Colleges must do their part to keep costs down, and it’s our job to make sure they do. Tonight, I ask Congress to change the Higher Education Act, so that affordability and value are included in determining which colleges receive certain types of federal aid. And tomorrow, my Administration will release a new “College Scorecard” that parents and students can use to compare schools based on a simple criteria: where you can get the most bang for your educational buck.

[/COLOR]Maybe he is on the right track?[COLOR=#000080][/COLOR]

#8 glunn

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

I'm always wary of raising the minimum wage too significantly because the cost of doing that will impact consumers. I'm not sure there is much of a net-gain there, but I'm far from well-versed on the numbers.


Here is what he said:

[COLOR=#0000cd] "We know our economy is stronger when we reward an honest day’s work with honest wages. But today, a full-time worker making the minimum wage earns $14,500 a year. Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong. That’s why, since the last time this Congress raised the minimum wage, nineteen states have chosen to bump theirs even higher.
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000cd][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] Tonight, let’s declare that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty, and raise the federal minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. This single step would raise the incomes of millions of working families. It could mean the difference between groceries or the food bank; rent or eviction; scraping by or finally getting ahead. For businesses across the country, it would mean customers with more money in their pockets. In fact, working folks shouldn’t have to wait year after year for the minimum wage to go up while CEO pay has never been higher. So here’s an idea that Governor Romney and I actually agreed on last year: let’s tie the minimum wage to the cost of living, so that it finally becomes a wage you can live on."[/COLOR]

A higher minimum wage may make that value meal cost $4.25 instead of $3.99, but more people will be able to afford it.

#9 biggentleben

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:44 AM

Most notable thing about the SOTU...the awkward rebuttal. Yikes.
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#10 Vegeta

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:12 AM

I was baffled by Bush's incompetence. I am in awe that Obama is easily going to pass Bush in worthlessness

#11 PseudoSABR

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

Most notable thing about the SOTU...the awkward rebuttal. Yikes.

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#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:47 PM

I was baffled by Bush's incompetence. I am in awe that Obama is easily going to pass Bush in worthlessness


He hasn't started a completely unnecessary and worthless war that cost us billions and killed thousands of Americans. Obama has that going for him.

#13 TheLeviathan

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

Maybe he is on the right track?


The difference between rhetoric and effective action is akin to the difference between the federal government saying "let's make college more affordable!" (via loans) and what actually happens "colleges milk loan system to ever increasing tuition rates and soak the public for their extravagances, thus making college LESS affordable overall".

So hence why I want to see the results of the rhetoric before I praise too much.

A higher minimum wage may make that value meal cost $4.25 instead of $3.99, but more people will be able to afford it.


I'm assuming you just pulled those numbers out of your rearend, but that's what Pseudo was asking and I'm cautious about....how much of an impact will there be? I guess I haven't seen any balanced perspectives on this.

#14 luke829

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

Posted Image


Still not the greatest "rebuttal" in the history of the US presidency:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOnDatqENo
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#15 Ultima Ratio

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:13 PM

http://youtu.be/9nCH1E29jjw?hd=1
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#16 glunn

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:47 PM

I'm assuming you just pulled those numbers out of your rearend, but that's what Pseudo was asking and I'm cautious about....how much of an impact will there be? I guess I haven't seen any balanced perspectives on this.


My numbers were rough estimates. My point is that a $10 minimum wage might cause some modest price increases, but the effect will be substantially offset by the increased spending power of the employees.

Remember Henry Ford's insight about the benefit of having employees who could afford to buy his cars?

If that's not enough, please ask yourself what kind of country we live in where an employee busts his/her ass 40 hours per week for $14,500 per year? Shouldn't these people get more? Absent proof that a higher minimum wage will materially harm the economy, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the workers.

Please note that my preferred solution would be to stop the large retail and fast food employers from inhibiting unionization. I know that Walmart saves shoppers money by paying very low wages, but I also resent the fact that many Walmart employees make so little money that they need food stamps and other benefits to get by. Those food stamps and other benefits cost us money, while Walmart scores the benefit.

#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

My numbers were rough estimates. My point is that a $10 minimum wage might cause some modest price increases, but the effect will be substantially offset by the increased spending power of the employees?


My point is you don't know that by pulling things out of your rear-end. Neither do I. It certainly could be the case but I am not such an expert in how the markets would shake out that I pretend to know this would certainly happen. Hence why I'd like to see some numbers before I throw my opinion behind it.

Far too often these days, in my opinion, we are just doing things on principle and not making a concerted effort to figure out the right way to achieve what we want. We make things sound pretty and nice, but the actual laws or changes are toxic, back-breaking, worse-than-what-we-had-before nightmares. Anywhere from the housing problems caused by policies during the Clinton-Bush years to Federal Loan programs dating back to LBJ.

It's high time we start holding the rhetoric accountable to the policies passed and whether or not they actually made the world a better place. From where I sit both parties have been destroying the economy for years and keep feeding us the same rhetoric wrapped in the same sappy packaging you just gave us. We should demand actual, effective policy for a change. That would be nice.

#18 PseudoSABR

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:07 AM

[COLOR=#333333]Far too often these days, in my opinion, we are just doing things on principle and not making a concerted effort to figure out the right way to achieve what we want[/COLOR]

Look, no one wants stupid policies, and really the examples you mention benefit the banking industry more than they did the impoverished for which they were intended. You're really pointing to corruption rather than naivete.

My instincts tell me that a minimum wage increase would only help the real, liquid economy and perhaps **** the investment industry. I think the exchange of goods would remain pretty static, and so would jobs, with the potential for more consumer and retail jobs as the bottom earners would have more disposable income.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 15 February 2013 - 02:10 AM.


#19 TheLeviathan

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:57 AM

Look, no one wants stupid policies, and really the examples you mention benefit the banking industry more than they did the impoverished for which they were intended. You're really pointing to corruption rather than naivete.


No one WANTS stupid policies, but no one seems to care whether they are stupid or not so long as the packaging they are presented in sounds good. From Bush's education policies, to the current gun control proposals, to anything from this last SOTU - people don't seem to care about nuance. They care about rhetoric. I'm not saying anything revolutionary here, but I think the degree to which people are willing to overlook things has gotten worse. For example, I don't think Bill Clinton was corrupt when he signed in many of the housing initiatives 20 years ago. I think it was a genuine, principled act of trying to make the American dream happen for more people. Except the policies were toxic and made things much, much worse for the very people he intended to help. I don't know where in that process things broke down, but they did. We should be more careful to demand good solutions, not ones that sound good.

My instinct on the minimum wage laws is that it is likely a zero-sum game for those we intend it to help. More than likely the careers that would see a boost in income are in the same sectors of the economy in which the impoverished spend their money. Meaning any benefit in their spending power may be reduced or eliminated by increases in the costs they most associate with. (For example, fast food sales are dominated by the lower class) If there is real, substantial benefit - then yeah, sign me up. I just want to see that analysis first.

#20 mikecgrimes

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

What do people feel about connecting the minimum wage to the cost of living? It's a just idea, in it's spirit, but it's practical affect on low wage-paying business's capacity to turn profit is unknown to me. Though I can see how it would affect public corporations (box stores, fast food, etc.) stock worth.


It would make much more sense to give every American working over 1000 hours at minimum wage a check for $5,000, of course if that was the case everyone working for $6 (Edit $9 an hour I was thinking of the wage when I was 16) an hour would ask for a pay decrease. Every Government action like this has an unwanted reaction. Inflation solves all meaningful problems and welfare should solve the rest.