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#1 Haddyz

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

...I usually prefer mine with tonic and a cucumber.

Not quite the same topic, but it sounds good right about now.

Liam Hendriks is mentioned in passing in many pitching articles, but rarely something more. I think people forget that the Twins really like this guy. His triple-A numbers are excellent. So what's the deal when he's with the big club? Does he have Franky Liriano Syndrome?

I have to believe the last couple years, he's been a head-case and not shown what his true potential is. But it's odd, he flashes it from time to time too, right before he implodes in the 5th or 6th inning. Sounds more like Joe Mays Syndrome.

If this kid can figure it out, he's here to stay. I'm betting he's our #4 this year. Correia is already our #5.

#2 old nurse

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:35 PM

With Cuellar to work with him at the major league level there will be a better outcome. If the fastball continues to stay towards the center of the plate then the outcome will be the same as last year.

#3 70charger

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

I'm a believer in Hendriks, and it kinda bothers me when people ignore him (of course, it's a minor bother given all the bots on this site).

His numbers in AAA were truly outstanding, he's still young (23?), and he showed some indications of being able to put a few things together late last year, despite his abhorrent start. He's not a 28 year old AAAA guy who's never been particularly good at any level.

It might take him a little time, but I think he puts it together. I certainly hope he doesn't sit behind someone like Correia because of the pay due to him. But I think he'll show enough to earn a spot out of the gate. Hopefully he holds onto it.

#4 Top Gun

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

]Hendriks was our #4 at the[ start of last season, this will be his last big chance to prove anything.

#5 jimbo92107

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:02 AM

I don't get why some people are so ready to conclude that Liam Hendriks is a flop. Isn't it fairly common for a young pitcher to have a shaky rookie year? Frank Viola....no, wait. I won't go there. Hey, give the kid a chance!

#6 jokin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

I'm a believer in Hendriks, and it kinda bothers me when people ignore him (of course, it's a minor bother given all the bots on this site).

His numbers in AAA were truly outstanding, he's still young (23?), and he showed some indications of being able to put a few things together late last year, despite his abhorrent start. He's not a 28 year old AAAA guy who's never been particularly good at any level.

It might take him a little time, but I think he puts it together. I certainly hope he doesn't sit behind someone like Correia because of the pay due to him. But I think he'll show enough to earn a spot out of the gate. Hopefully he holds onto it.


A typical team in a typical year is always due a surprise or break out player. Certainly, in 2012, the Twins had Zero expectations for Diamond and Revere was considered a 4th OF when Spring Training broke North. I would have to nominate Hendriks for the top pick to be on of the break out and surprises list for 2013. Diamond seemingly suddenly "found it" as he clicked out of nowhere in Rochester before getting the callup and sustaining it with the Twins. Hendriks already had his revelation of mastery at Rochester in 2012. I hope Cuellar is the common link to both guys and they give Hendy a realistic shot at making the rotation out of ST, notwithstanding the money invested on the new faces coming in.

Edited by jokin, 01 February 2013 - 12:48 AM.


#7 old nurse

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

I don't get why some people are so ready to conclude that Liam Hendriks is a flop. Isn't it fairly common for a young pitcher to have a shaky rookie year? Frank Viola....no, wait. I won't go there. Hey, give the kid a chance!

A right hander with similar speed would be Dempster who struggled as a 21 year old and then figured it out. Kyle Lohse had a rough go his first year, also.

#8 jokin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

A right hander with similar speed would be Dempster who struggled as a 21 year old and then figured it out. Kyle Lohse had a rough go his first year, also.


Age-wise, Lohse and Hendriks are on the same age progression and both would be considered outside of the main stream, culturally. Hendriks minor league numbers are comparatively better, and has a little better control, but not as fast as Lohse. This is one guy that will hold my interest on his progression in a huge year of opportunity for him. I think it's largely mental at this point and learning how to "pitch".

#9 glunn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

I saw Hendriks pitch in Anaheim last year, in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter.

It seemed to me that Hendriks did not have anything resembling an "out pitch." It seemed to me that the Angels hitters were fouling off a lot of pitches until they got something to hit. If Hendriks could develop an "out pitch" (or something that would at least keep hitters off balance more), then I think that he could be great. I wonder how difficult it would be to teach Hendriks to throw a decent slider or a better changeup. I also wonder if Johan Santana might be available as a pitching instructor after next year.

#10 jokin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

I saw Hendriks pitch in Anaheim last year, in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter.

It seemed to me that Hendriks did not have anything resembling an "out pitch." It seemed to me that the Angels hitters were fouling off a lot of pitches until they got something to hit. If Hendriks could develop an "out pitch" (or something that would at least keep hitters off balance more), then I think that he could be great. I wonder how difficult it would be to teach Hendriks to throw a decent slider or a better changeup. I also wonder if Johan Santana might be available as a pitching instructor after next year.


A cutter disguised as a fastball would be nice, relatively simple to teach and easier on the arm.

#11 mike wants wins

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

I have said all along that he should pitch every day in the majors, let's see how good his stuff is. Especially now given the moves they have made.

#12 70charger

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:42 AM

I have said all along that he should pitch every day in the majors, let's see how good his stuff is. Especially now given the moves they have made.


Well...

Maybe every five days or so.

#13 Seth Stohs

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

Everyone knows that I'm incredibly high on Hendriks. Not that he can be a #1, but I think he can be equivalent to what Scott Baker was (which was a #3 with sometimes #2 abilities). He's got the same pitches. He has the control. I just think he's very smart pitching-wise, and he was thinking too much. getting that first Win out of the way will help. He definitely was in his head in the big leagues last year. What would be great is if he had another strong spring training and got off to a nice start, like 3-1 in April or something. Then he can relax and just pitch. I think he can be successful.

Granted, I've been wrong about several players, but I'll take my chances with Liam.

#14 mike wants wins

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

I knew someone would point out my badly worded post.....sorry about that.

#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:03 AM

I'm not as high on Hendriks as Seth but I think his ceiling is somewhere around a #3, more likely a #4. His lack of an out pitch is a little distressing. All in all, I think he'll be a serviceable pitcher and I don't worry too much about his struggles last season. He'll probably come around once he learns to trust his stuff instead of nibbling at corners and pitching scared.

#16 Haddyz

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:51 AM

I've been high on some Hendriks as well. I've watched more than handful of games where Hendriks has the hitters fooled initially, getting good ground balls, etc... but by the third time around the lineup... goodbye mr. spaulding (in our case, mr. rawlings).

I like the comparison to Scott Baker. I actually deleted that part of my original post. I think Baker had a lot of mental, get through the tough stuff, issues up front. He sorted them out with some positive thinking guru, if I remember correctly. Not sure if that's something Hendriks needs or if he just needs to pull on his big boy pants and dig in.

Here's hoping the man shows up and is one of those picks to click in '13.

I would like to finish the year with Hendriks and Gibson, both, finding some consistency.

Prediction is that they bring Gibson up AFTER 6 weeks (unless a pitcher gets hurt). Hicks starts the season with the big club (unless he has a disastrous spring). Hendriks slotted as #4/5 right out the gate.

#17 twinsnorth49

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

I think his lack of an "out" pitch is a little overstated. I was at the Seattle game last year where he went toe to toe with King Felix,easily his best performance of the season. What I saw in that game was a pitcher going after hitters instead of nibbling around the edges and hoping for strikes. 22/31 first pitch strikes and kept them off balance all night, 6 SO showed he had no problem getting guys out. No pitcher establishes much of an out pitch when they are pitching from behind all night, something Hendriks did a lot of last season.

IMO he just needs to trust his stuff and get after it, something it takes a lot of young pitchers a little while to have confidence in at this level.

#18 Parker Hageman

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

Last September, I took a look at Hendriks and what his issues were at the major league level. Part of it was because he was getting obliterated by right-handed opponents -- the results of not pitching inside and attempting to hit the outer-half of the plate while throwing across his body:

Twins Daily - What's hindering Hendriks?

#19 3up3down

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

i have said my case against hendricks several times before, i just dont see what most on here see, to be remotely successful in the bigs you need atleast 1 plus pitch, he has none , they are all average at best, he is a #5 or long man in the NL...devries ,walters & deduno have better stuff. i am rooting for him because the twins really need him, but i dont think the results are going to be what we are hoping for. i really dont think his #s will be that good in AAA again. i know he pitched some good games (seattle) but if you run a guy out there enough he is bound to pitch good every now & then. the only thing that gives me hope for hendricks is his AAA #s, i have to say he did dominate there. but AAA is not the bigs.

#20 Riverbrian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:30 AM

I think North is spot on... Young Pitcher... What he was last year doesn't mean he is gonna be that way next year or 2 years for now.

When you are trying to make the majors... You can grip that ball a little tight.

#21 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

Everyone knows that I'm incredibly high on Hendriks. Not that he can be a #1, but I think he can be equivalent to what Scott Baker was (which was a #3 with sometimes #2 abilities). He's got the same pitches. He has the control. I just think he's very smart pitching-wise, and he was thinking too much. getting that first Win out of the way will help. He definitely was in his head in the big leagues last year. What would be great is if he had another strong spring training and got off to a nice start, like 3-1 in April or something. Then he can relax and just pitch. I think he can be successful.

Granted, I've been wrong about several players, but I'll take my chances with Liam.


Liam , this years diamond....

#22 h2oface

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Liam could be a star in Japan. Without an out pitch, it will be a hope in the MLB.

#23 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

It seemed to me that the Angels hitters were fouling off a lot of pitches until they got something to hit.


That is my recollection as well, from watching him in his game at Oakland, the one where Coco Crisp had a big game. And ya know... the box score at baseball-reference.com doesn't back me up on this particularly. The innings where the runs scored, there weren't a bunch of foul balls. And the at bat I do remember, of Pennington fouling off 7 consecutively, he ended up striking out. Reddick did draw a walk after fouling off 4; but all in all, my anecdotal evidence doesn't hold up. Not as a major explanation along the lines of not being able to put batters away, at least.

#24 LoganJones

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

He's the sort of fellow who very easily could flip the switch and make the rotation much better.

#25 jimbo92107

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:34 PM

Age-wise, Lohse and Hendriks are on the same age progression and both would be considered outside of the main stream, culturally. Hendriks minor league numbers are comparatively better, and has a little better control, but not as fast as Lohse. This is one guy that will hold my interest on his progression in a huge year of opportunity for him. I think it's largely mental at this point and learning how to "pitch".


Not so much learning how to pitch as learning to stick with his game plan. What I saw last year was Hendriks letting the opposition put pressure on him, rather than Hendriks putting pressure on them. Execute your game plan, then let the chips fall where they may. Hendriks has to learn to separate his job from his ego. Just throw the pitch your catcher calls, then get ready for the next one.

One of two things always happens in sports: Either you are feeling pressure, or you are applying pressure. The nice thing is, when you're applying pressure, you don't feel it. Winners are always applying pressure.

Edited by jimbo92107, 01 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#26 Physics Guy

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

I see him in the mold of Radke, sans the changeup. He has to establish strike one. Pitching is much easier when you are ahead in the count. He doesn't have the stuff to pitch from behind in the count all of the time. Baseball Reference has a stat called sOPS+ which compares the pitchers splits at various counts versus the league average. Here is what his sOPS+ was:

Ahead in the count: 110
Even: 159
Behind in the count: 140

Liam Hendriks 2012 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Radke's for his career were:
Ahead: 54
Even: 101
Behind 156

For Radke's rookie season:
Ahead: 105
Even: 99
Behind: 125

Hopefully Hendriks finds the command and a more effective second pitch to come even close to Radke. Without a better secondary pitch he tops out as a #3 at best and more likely a #4.

#27 mcrow

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:50 PM

Just for the fact that he's 23 and only going into the second season as a starter means he's defenitely not a flop.

Hopefully he'll get a shot to be the #5 starter this year, assuming the Twins don't sign Saunders. If they sign Saunders, Hendriks will be relagated to a fill in role again which I think might be bad for his developement. I'd like hime to get to a chance to be the #5 and sink or swim.

Then again you have Gibson who I'd like to see as well, but then Pelfrey might not be ready to go and there's chance of injury so Gibson still get his innings as well.

#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

I agree with Parker, he was getting hammered by batters because they were leaning out over the plate on him. I have him as one of the pleasant surprises I expect this year along with Parmalee, so I'm looking forward to seeing him pitch.

#29 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

I agree with Parker, he was getting hammered by batters because they were leaning out over the plate on him. I have him as one of the pleasant surprises I expect this year along with Parmalee, so I'm looking forward to seeing him pitch.


Interesting. Another observation I had, at the game in Oakland last August, was that DH Seth Smith crowded the plate like I don't remember seeing in a while. I was sitting there begging (quietly, as a visitor) any of the pitchers to brush him back until he behaved. It was just Smith though, as I don't remember anyone else doing it to Hendriks - but small differences could easily escape my eye.

#30 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:44 PM

Yeah I can't say I have a real nuanced eye, it's just the vibe I remember getting. From what he has for stuff I really don't see why he can't be a real solid arm for this club going forward.