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Sinker: Why The Twins Will Stink

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#31 ThePuck

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:35 PM

One game playoff to determine who finishes last, the Twins or the Astros.......................[SIZE=5]KIDDING!!!!!![/SIZE]


That'd be hilarious!

#32 twinsnorth49

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

The front office is actively sabotaging the team? Do you also believe that the moon landing was done in a studio in New Mexico?

Your post is bad, and you should feel bad.


Same place they filmed 9/11.

#33 birdwatcher

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

Geez, I write a friggin treatise and get picked apart for my arithmetic. /s

#34 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

One's fandom is only as valid as they think it is. If someone telling you you're not a true fan raises your hackles, you've got some issues that you need to investigate.


A true fan loves the team enough to question poor decisions and to demand better when better is attainable soley to establish an enjoable, winning and enduring product. A lackadaisical fan says Que sera, sera. That's the difference between tough love and enabling. How are your hackles?

Edited by nicksaviking, 01 February 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#35 Bombo Rivera

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

I had season tickets in the 90's when they were terrible and I will have season tickets again this year even though they are going to be terrible. Even though we won't be competitive there are still many things I look forward to watching and see develop. And if by some stroke of luck we do compete this year than it's a bonus for me.


That is probably the right attitude to have going into this season. But it sure is fun to complain about the seemingly lack of improvement that the teams appears to have this off-season.

#36 Bombo Rivera

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

Here's why I believe Howard should be slightly more optimistic:


1. The team'll probably go something like 78-85, but that means that, game to game, we'll have a better chance to witness a victory. Now, that's not good enough for some, and that's understandable. Most of us are quite tolerant of each other's thinking. But for me and many others, that improvement would be meaningful. Now, it may not happen. OK, jokin? You can be pessimistic. It's OK. Just try not to be snotty and mean about it.

2. The team will be more fun to watch.

To back up my first point:

1. Anything is better than last year, including and especially the starting pitching, which, in my opinion, may be just a tad better than what the consensus believes. I base that on the health of Gibson and Pelfry and the expectation that Diamond, Hendriks, and Worley all come to work healthy. Florimon and Dozier will be decent up the middle. Hicks will be OK at the plate and stellar in center. Parmelee will be better defensively than many people think, in line with his past history in right field. Morneau appears to be healthy, as does everyone else. Plouffe is more likely to improve than not, defensively especially. Gardy can't possibly manage as poorly as he did last year. He had a bad year, like many players. I anticipate better energy from the field staff.

2. Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, a healthy Morneau, an improved Hendriks, better defense overall, intrigue at the trade deadline, maybe some nice surprises by guys like Benson Dozier, Robertson, and then, so much to watch for ithe minors.

So, while my expectations are rather modest I believe, I'm going to have fun watching this team play baseball in 2013.

By the way, jokin, what's the opposite of an apologist?


I like some/most of your comments. However, Florimon-Dozier up the middle will NOT be decent. I can't think of a worse middle infield combo in all of baseball. Those 2 might set a record for worst WAR in any one season if allowed to play all year.

#37 Blackjack

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

Posts like these, bickering at each other for being positive or negative, makes me wonder why I even bother reading the comments. I should just stick to reading Seth and some of the other main posters articles and leave it at that!!!

#38 Riverbrian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

I like some/most of your comments. However, Florimon-Dozier up the middle will NOT be decent. I can't think of a worse middle infield combo in all of baseball. Those 2 might set a record for worst WAR in any one season if allowed to play all year.


You may be right... You may be wrong... It might be somewhere in between... Personally... I can't wait to find out...

If I think about April really hard... Is there any chance it will get here faster? :)

#39 ThePuck

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

Geez, I write a friggin treatise and get picked apart for my arithmetic. /s


I'm sorry, I forgot to put a smiley. I was just kidding.

#40 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

Dude has always been Mr negative and clearly is not a real fan. /s


why?

#41 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

That's what the apologists doniti't seem to register. Baseball does have oodles of possible outcomes along the Bell Curve. I'm sure you've watched as much baseball as me, and every single year, there are multiple instances of witnessing events that you've never seen before. Deduno could easily be a one-year wonder who captures lightning in a bottle. RA Dickey was an afterthought to virtually the entire cast of MLB teams back in 2009 and now he's a Cy Young winner in his late 30s. If Deduno or Hendriks or, even Hermsen, for heaven' sake, somehow caught fire, the rankest cynics on TD would love to be completely wrong and they would be pulling just as hard as the apologists for a Worst-to-First run like 90-91.


Come April 1st, i will keep the makings of a crow sandwich handy, i happy last year to admitt that lil Ben was better then i thought...
Im always happy to be wrong about twins players i think are worthless....With that in mind , im hoping to be wrong about Correia, Butrea,Robertson,florimon and Blackburn this year

#42 Top Gun

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

The front office is actively sabotaging the team? Do you also believe that the moon landing was done in a studio in New Mexico?

Your post is bad, and you should feel bad.

You say sabotaging. I say don't care, maybe they care more about the 30M in the pockets and another high draft pick. It's all about a bright future but pay the price now. Every day is a bad day when Twins lose and a happy one when they win for me. Hope you have a good day!

#43 JB_Iowa

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

I'm bookmarking a number of threads to reopen in October.

We can all review them to determine who is a real "fan".

Time to quit arguing over how dismal this team is -- or will be -- time for pitchers and catchers to report. Then we can all see whether the optimists were right or whether the "nattering nabobs of negativism" (of which I'm one) should keep nattering.

#44 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:58 PM

I'm bookmarking a number of threads to reopen in October.... Then we can all see whether the optimists were right or whether the "nattering nabobs of negativism" (of which I'm one) should keep nattering.


If the nabobs are right, a quick revisit at the end of May could be long enough to wait.

#45 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:02 PM

Lots of 'boo-hoo' in that article. There is seriously no point to following something that makes you miserable.


Yeah....ignore him! That'll show em!

#46 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

Baseball does have oodles of possible outcomes along the Bell Curve. I'm sure you've watched as much baseball as me, and every single year, there are multiple instances of witnessing events that you've never seen before. Deduno could easily be a one-year wonder who captures lightning in a bottle.


The bell curve is shaped the way it is for a reason. Yes, someone will likely be a one-year wonder; the odds that it's specifically Deduno are not so "easily" seen.

Saying Deduno could easily be the one to break out is along the same lines as saying the Twins either will, or won't, win the World Series in 2013, therefore the odds must be 50-50 on either outcome.

#47 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:10 PM

Who here remembers 1982, and the surrounding years? Then you've seen this all before, and lived to tell the tale.


Dont mean we have to like it or accept it ....kind of like asking who remembers the flood of 69 or 2011....most remember , but those who do remember dont want it to happen again...=)

Edited by johnnydakota, 01 February 2013 - 04:26 PM.


#48 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

This team has hope, but it's a fair assessment to be upset (from a fan's perspective) about some decisions and what the fan base was fed. I think this team has a chance to contend, with a bunch of breaks, but it depends upon a lot of good breaks and statistical breaks (or suprise performances). It can be done, much like proclaiming "So you're saying there's a chance?"

Go Glunn/Go Twins!

i totally agree we need some breaks, Verlander,Miggy fielder,konerko Peavey ,Shields all to break there leggs , then we have a shot..
But probally not a good shot

#49 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

Here's why I believe Howard should be slightly more optimistic:


1. The team'll probably go something like 78-85, but that means that, game to game, we'll have a better chance to witness a victory. Now, that's not good enough for some, and that's understandable. Most of us are quite tolerant of each other's thinking. But for me and many others, that improvement would be meaningful. Now, it may not happen. OK, jokin? You can be pessimistic. It's OK. Just try not to be snotty and mean about it.

2. The team will be more fun to watch.

To back up my first point:

1. Anything is better than last year, including and especially the starting pitching, which, in my opinion, may be just a tad better than what the consensus believes. I base that on the health of Gibson and Pelfry and the expectation that Diamond, Hendriks, and Worley all come to work healthy. Florimon and Dozier will be decent up the middle. Hicks will be OK at the plate and stellar in center. Parmelee will be better defensively than many people think, in line with his past history in right field. Morneau appears to be healthy, as does everyone else. Plouffe is more likely to improve than not, defensively especially. Gardy can't possibly manage as poorly as he did last year. He had a bad year, like many players. I anticipate better energy from the field staff.

2. Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, a healthy Morneau, an improved Hendriks, better defense overall, intrigue at the trade deadline, maybe some nice surprises by guys like Benson Dozier, Robertson, and then, so much to watch for ithe minors.

So, while my expectations are rather modest I believe, I'm going to have fun watching this team play baseball in 2013.

By the way, jokin, what's the opposite of an apologist?


Pssst dont be a Bogart , pass it =)

#50 snepp

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

i totally agree we need some breaks, Verlander,Miggy fielder,konerko Peavey ,Shields all to break there leggs , then we have a shot..
But probally not a good shot


Well, the Twins could hire a leg-breaker, but I'm afraid that would push them over budget.

#51 S.

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

Even though we won't be competitive there are still many things I look forward to watching and see develop. And if by some stroke of luck we do compete this year than it's a bonus for me.

This right here. I'm certainly going to continue to express my discontent when i disagree with the actions or lack thereof of the FO, but at the end of the day i'm still going to be watching and happy for baseball season.

I have a lot of friends who aren't serious fans and they often ask me how I managed to watch or listen to 100-120+ games the last two years. I always tell them that even if it is a terrible loss, there is a high likelihood that some good or entertaining things are gonna happen. Whether it be a sweet hit, a great catch, Nick Punto diving into first base, whatever. And even if it's one of those games where everything goes wrong, it's still baseball and I love baseball.

I think sometimes people on here take some of the arguments too personal...or conversely, make some of the arguments too personal. Yeah, most of us are pretty pissed about the current state of the Twins major league roster, but there is still some good to be had and no reason for so many threads to devolve into shoving matches. I'm guilty as well, to be fair, and I assume a lot of it will die down pretty soon here with spring training and us actually having things to talk about.

Edited by S., 01 February 2013 - 04:21 PM.


#52 Top Gun

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."

#53 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

Did we switch to a 163 game season?


163 games? kewl we get to see Blackburn pitch another decent game ,and maybe get a long term contractagain...

#54 mike wants wins

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

Not sure if the earlier question to me was serious, but /s is short for "everything before this was sarcasm".

#55 jokin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

This right here. I'm certainly going to continue to express my discontent when i disagree with the actions or lack thereof of the FO, but at the end of the day i'm still going to be watching and happy for baseball season.

I have a lot of friends who aren't serious fans and they often ask me how I managed to watch or listen to 100-120+ games the last two years. I always tell them that even if it is a terrible loss, there is a high likelihood that some good or entertaining things are gonna happen. Whether it be a sweet hit, a great catch, Nick Punto diving into first base, whatever. And even if it's one of those games where everything goes wrong, it's still baseball and I love baseball.

I think sometimes people on here take some of the arguments too personal...or conversely, make some of the arguments too personal. Yeah, most of us are pretty pissed about the current state of the Twins major league roster, but there is still some good to be had and no reason for so many threads to devolve into shoving matches. I'm guilty as well, to be fair, and I assume a lot of it will die down pretty soon here with spring training and us actually having things to talk about.


I heartily endorse (and resemble) these remarks.

#56 jokin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

Apparently, being more optimistic than the insufferable jokin means one is an "apologist". Even when, unlike jokin, one makes his case citing actual facts and logic rather than a bunch of blather that really isn't very clever. 70charger likes this (of course he did!)


Apparently, a poster can't even find even one moment for a little levity. It must be sad to be you.

For the record, I have submitted many posts citing actual facts and logic to project optimism when it's warranted- even you would have to admit that the opportunities to post in such a manner have been severely limited the last few years.

To further that thought; I believe it was you who had faith that TR was going to take advantage of his experience and favorable payroll situation to make an offseason fix to the SP staff, similar to the fixes he employed to the RPs and field lineup in the 2011 offseason. You have gone on record on more than one occasion, stating that his efforts haven't met up to your expectations.

Edited by jokin, 01 February 2013 - 06:16 PM.


#57 panolo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:48 PM

That is probably the right attitude to have going into this season. But it sure is fun to complain about the seemingly lack of improvement that the teams appears to have this off-season.


I guess I look at it a little different. I'm pretty excited about some of the things that are setting up to play out in the next year or two. I was born in the 70's and my first memories were in the early to mid 80's and seeing things like Kirby's infectious smile are drilled into my knoggin. I'm fine with all the moves, or lack there of, that happened this off season. Sure I think they could have done more however I think that it sets things up to get us some of the younger guys to the big leagues sooner and show what they have. When we start winning again it will be because of the home grown talent we cultivated or used to acquire other talent.

#58 Riverbrian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."


I know that one... "Trees" by Rush... Album Hemispheres 1978... Lyrics by Neil Peart... I didn't even have to Google it.

Back to the discussion.

#59 Riverbrian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

The thing I like about Jokin is this:

He gives me things to google cuz I have to trace down a bunch of his references... There is value in that!!! and Jokin I do appreciate it.

#60 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

I think Howard nails it when he talks about how building for the future is great, but refusing to build a birdge to the future is hard to accept or justify.

The Twins have money to spend. They are in the weakest division in baseball. We may be a ways off from being a legit threat to win it all, but I think another solid starter and a competent middle infielder or two could have given us a shot to hang in the division race for a while with an outside chance to win it if some things broke our way.

But as I look at the roster now, I see a 70-75 win team.