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Mason: Correia expects to eat up innings for the Twins

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#31 drivlikejehu

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

I haven't seen any personal attacks against Correia. He just isn't good enough to be a starting pitcher in the American League. As an inexpensive long reliever, virtually no one would complain. The problem has nothing to do with Correia himself and everything to do with Twins' management.

There is no way to "move on" from the fact that the front office can't properly evaluate players and apparently doesn't even bother using available budget space. Correia's signing is basically inarguable evidence that there's a serious problem, and trying to act like it's some kind of hate-fest against Correia is just dodging the actual substance behind the criticisms.

#32 LaBombo

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

Drew Butera? You have a problem with Drew Butera? Correia I get, but suddenly we're bashing Drew Butera?


You're on the short list of the most hysterical FO apologists on the board, but this is beneath even you. No, not the implied defense of one of the worst hitters in the history of major league baseball. That kind of thing is par for the course here. But the outrage that people are "suddenly" "bashing" a player who has been criticized for YEARS here and every where else but the Twins' PR unicorn stable for his almost magical ability to make baseballs miss his bat..., that's not... sane.

The thing is, it isn't 'sudden', and if you're historically awful at what you do, criticism of you isn't "bashing", it's a plea for a major upgrade to mediocrity.

Money para-quote: 'Drew Butera? You gotta problem with Drew Butera?'

A ray of hope. At least you're inadvertently channeling someone who can handle a bat:
Posted Image

#33 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

I don't like the Correia siging because he's typically not going to get you 180+ innings per season, he tends to give up the long ball, and doesn't have the stuff to be much of strikeout pitcher. OTOH, he is an experience pitcher and the Twins could use that on the roster and if he can do what he did last year it could be a decent signing. It's not as bad as some think in that the market went way up for pitching this off-season and looks like it will be worse next year. So, if Correia performs well enough for the Twins (approaches 180 innings) then he could look like a pretty good deal next year.

#34 FrodaddyG

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

When did we stop?

I had to assume he was kidding. My brain tried processing it as a serious statement and got a BSOD.

#35 70charger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

You're on the short list of the most hysterical FO apologists on the board, but this is beneath even you. No, not the implied defense of one of the worst hitters in the history of major league baseball. That kind of thing is par for the course here. But the outrage that people are "suddenly" "bashing" a player who has been criticized for YEARS here and every where else but the Twins' PR unicorn stable for his almost magical ability to make baseballs miss his bat..., that's not... sane.

The thing is, it isn't 'sudden', and if you're historically awful at what you do, criticism of you isn't "bashing", it's a plea for a major upgrade to mediocrity.

Money para-quote: 'Drew Butera? You gotta problem with Drew Butera?'

A ray of hope. At least you're inadvertently channeling someone who can handle a bat:


Was the sarcasm that difficult to see? Pull your head out of your ass, man.

#36 LaBombo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:29 AM

Was the sarcasm that difficult to see? Pull your head out of your ass, man.


Said another Twins PR enforcer. Sarcasm? Really? Anyway, thanks for suggesting a home remedy for stupid that I don't need.

On another note, thanks a bunch for helping me prove a point I wasn't trying to make, but absolutely should be:

"Suddenly? Where have you been? "

That's someone else who didn't get the Woody Allen-esque subtlety of birdwatchher's "sarcasm".

But North is a card-carrying member of the Twins Faithful, so maybe his whiff on birdman's stealthy comic genius is ok.

#37 70charger

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:08 AM

Yeah, he missed it too, but he didn't feel the need to write a manifesto capped with a stupid picture.

Pull your head out of your ass.

#38 Blackjack

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

Looks like the natives are getting restless!@!!! Time for spring training to start before they start killing themselves!!!

Did anyone hear Sid's interview with Terry Ryan on Sunday? When the subject of Butera came up Terry just made it plain that he wanted a veteran catcher around in case Mauer or Dumait get hurt, that the organization was a little short on catchers. Makes sense. You've got a raw, unproven pitching staff, on sense in adding an unproven catcher to the mix when you can sign a known defensive catcher for a little over the minimum salary.

Let the flames roar on!!!

#39 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

I don't like the fact that Butera is on the roster but fixing that problem was waaaaaaay down on my list of things to care about going into 2013.

The problem is that numbers 1-17 weren't addressed in a meaningful way, either.

#40 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:02 AM

I don't really have an issue with keeping Butera around. Mauer staying healthy is far from a sure thing, Doumit could go down as well. If nothing else Butera is solid behind the plate though you are taking a big hit on the offensive side. I think they need to keep 3 guys on the roster that can catch and Butera is a better option right now than they have in the minors.

#41 Boom Boom

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

I was under the impression that this was a forum to talk about Twins baseball. One of the moderators needs to put together a comprehensive list of subtopics involving Twins baseball that we shouldn't talk about.

#42 LimestoneBaggy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:15 AM

I'm a Seth fan, a fan of this website/forum, and a huge snark fan. I wish we could all have Seth's positive attitude for a day. It's in his nature to ask people to lay off Kevin and hope for the best. I praise him for that (feel free to label me an apologist /maybe I am). But my guess is that if you want to lay it on Kevin, you're not going to stop. Some people don't feel like thier point is made until they've repeated it ad naseum. But to be honest, I dislike the signing, I dislike the FO's attempt to call him an upgrade, and I sincerely hope he proves the vast majority of us all wrong. I'll be the first to openly admit I was wrong in such a case and take my beatings for it.

So to settle this, should Kevin throw 180+ innings of 4.50 FIP or below this season, us, the God-fearing citizens of Rock Ridge (who do not project Kevin to perform at this level) are hereby forced to wear a A.J. Pierzynski White Sox jersey, frost tip our hair (if you still have yours) and loudly proclaim "Terry Ryan was right" at all major interestections in Minneapolis. We also hereby waive our right to call it TR/JR lucky. It's only fair.

On another note, may the Twins never let Sweet Drew go. I'm his biggest fan.

#43 Willihammer

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

I'll do you one better.

If Correia throws 180+ innings of 4.50 FIP, I'll frost tip my hair, spray on a skin tan, and don my Carl Pavano / Yankees jersey to Target Field when the Yanks are in town in 2014.

#44 panolo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

I haven't seen any personal attacks against Correia. He just isn't good enough to be a starting pitcher in the American League. As an inexpensive long reliever, virtually no one would complain. The problem has nothing to do with Correia himself and everything to do with Twins' management.

There is no way to "move on" from the fact that the front office can't properly evaluate players and apparently doesn't even bother using available budget space. Correia's signing is basically inarguable evidence that there's a serious problem, and trying to act like it's some kind of hate-fest against Correia is just dodging the actual substance behind the criticisms.


You have no verifiable evidence of the bold type. Matter of fact if you look at his interleague starts against the AL the last 3 years he was above average in many categories.

The truth of the matter is that if KC pitches like he did last year he is a significant upgrade over what we had in 2012. He should be viewed as nothing more than a competent stop gap for the next two years. If we get 200 innings of league average pitching each of the next two years $10 mil is a good deal.

#45 Nick Nelson

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

The truth of the matter is that if KC pitches like he did last year he is a significant upgrade over what we had in 2012. He should be viewed as nothing more than a competent stop gap for the next two years. If we get 200 innings of league average pitching each of the next two years $10 mil is a good deal.


I agree. The problem, of course, is that he hasn't been league average in like four years and has never thrown 200 innings. And that is verifiable evidence. I get that people want to look on the bright side, and it is indeed possible that Correia could be serviceable if things break right, but let's not act like he's some 25-year-old prepared to turn a corner in his career.

#46 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:13 AM

The truth of the matter is, if KC manage those numbers, it'll be the first time in his career.

#47 old nurse

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

I'll do you one better.

If Correia throws 180+ innings of 4.50 FIP, I'll frost tip my hair, spray on a skin tan, and don my Carl Pavano / Yankees jersey to Target Field when the Yanks are in town in 2014.

Will you take a picture and make it your avatar also?
Rhetorical question is why would anyone have a Carl Pavano Yankees jersey?

#48 JB_Iowa

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

I understand that, but it has been over a month of straight bashing Correia. How about now accepting that he is signed and hope for the best. At least until the reality sets in in the regular season.


I conserve my quota of "hope" during the offseason and start using it up on Opening Day.

#49 nicksaviking

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

Yeah, he missed it too, but he didn't feel the need to write a manifesto capped with a stupid picture.

Pull your head out of your ass.


You calling Robert De Niro stupid? Or Al Capone?

Clearly you didn't see the ensuing scene.

#50 panolo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

I agree. The problem, of course, is that he hasn't been league average in like four years and has never thrown 200 innings. And that is verifiable evidence. I get that people want to look on the bright side, and it is indeed possible that Correia could be serviceable if things break right, but let's not act like he's some 25-year-old prepared to turn a corner in his career.


I completely agree that he is not going to have a "revelation" and be an ace. And I also should have tempered my innings pitched to 180. However if he pitches like he did last year he is an upgrade and his contract could be considered good, imo.

The biggest problem with KC is that he is a back end of the rotation guy and we have no semblance of a true #1 or #2 that has any major league innings. If we had Johan, Liriano(pre surgery), Radke, and Pavano setup there probably would be zero whining about KC taking that 5th slot.

I truly think that they view KC as a guy who go out there, pitch a lot of innings, give them a chance to win some games, and be a stop gap for two years until guys like Gibson, Meyer, May, Berrios, etc. are ready to jump into the rotation. He's also a veteran presence who when I dug a little into really had zero makeup issues. He shows nothing in his background where he is going to go out and show up his fielders and coaches like Marquis did. Maybe help mentor some of the young guys.

I really don't have much hope for 2013 and never really bought into the hyperbole that this year isn't a developmental year. However there are many things I am looking forward to seeing this year. It's just that competing for the playoffs is probably not one of them and I am fine with that.

#51 twinsnorth49

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

"Suddenly? Where have you been? "

That's someone else who didn't get the Woody Allen-esque subtlety of birdwatchher's "sarcasm".

But North is a card-carrying member of the Twins Faithful, so maybe his whiff on birdman's stealthy comic genius is ok.


Really? Wow, I wonder if my card will come at the same time as my Drew Butera and Kevin Correia fan club membership.

#52 old nurse

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

Rumor has it Matt Capps is also willing to eat for the Twins in 2013.

If Correia eats innings will he get as big as Matt Capps?

#53 ashburyjohn

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Some people don't feel like thier point is made until they've repeated it ad naseum.


Maybe some people have learned from experience that saying something once here has no impact whatsoever. Everybody posts; nobody reads.

#54 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

Maybe some people have learned from experience that saying something once here has no impact whatsoever.


Just need to use more CAPS, and bold, and underlines.





CAPBOLDERLINES!

#55 Willihammer

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

[size=5]kccoleslawdedunburned
[/size]

#56 LoganJones

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

Fan bases always have their irrational focal points for their ire. Correia is one of them, clearly. Last season, the Twins received 58 starts from pitchers who provided them with an ERA less than Correia's career number, half being Diamond. Of the remaining 104, They got 542.1 Innings of 6.34 ERA, 1.8 runs per 9 higher than KC's career average of 4.54. Even if we just say we only get the 161 IP (that's avg per year including the developmental and injury years) His career average saves the 2012 team 32 runs. 10 runs per win, right? Average Correia is worth 15 Million to the team. His 10/2 not a ridiculous amount of money. Even if you consider the .41 bump that people cite for going from NL to AL, C.A.KC Still saves the team 24 runs. So 10 Million? Just about right.

That's just how dire the pitching got last year, folks. When you're making massive changes/upgrades you have to evaluate based on your own situation, not the ideal. Sure, we'd all have loved to grab some of the higher priced free agents, as well, but it's not healthy to continue to focus negative energy on things that while not massive, actually are improvements.

#57 ThePuck

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

Fan bases always have their irrational focal points for their ire. Correia is one of them, clearly. Last season, the Twins received 58 starts from pitchers who provided them with an ERA less than Correia's career number, half being Diamond. Of the remaining 104, They got 542.1 Innings of 6.34 ERA, 1.8 runs per 9 higher than KC's career average of 4.54. Even if we just say we only get the 161 IP (that's avg per year including the developmental and injury years) His career average saves the 2012 team 32 runs. 10 runs per win, right? Average Correia is worth 15 Million to the team. His 10/2 not a ridiculous amount of money. Even if you consider the .41 bump that people cite for going from NL to AL, C.A.KC Still saves the team 24 runs. So 10 Million? Just about right.

That's just how dire the pitching got last year, folks. When you're making massive changes/upgrades you have to evaluate based on your own situation, not the ideal. Sure, we'd all have loved to grab some of the higher priced free agents, as well, but it's not healthy to continue to focus negative energy on things that while not massive, actually are improvements.


What happens when you look at ERA+ instead of ERA...and not the whole career, but the last three years?

#58 LoganJones

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

What happens when you look at ERA+ instead of ERA...and not the whole career, but the last three years?


his ERA+ for the past 3 years is 78. The 104 starts in question gave us an ERA+ of 69. 8.8% better in that regard, too.

Edited by LoganJones, 30 January 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#59 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

Fan bases always have their irrational focal points for their ire. Correia is one of them, clearly. Last season, the Twins received 58 starts from pitchers who provided them with an ERA less than Correia's career number, half being Diamond. Of the remaining 104, They got 542.1 Innings of 6.34 ERA, 1.8 runs per 9 higher than KC's career average of 4.54. Even if we just say we only get the 161 IP (that's avg per year including the developmental and injury years) His career average saves the 2012 team 32 runs. 10 runs per win, right? Average Correia is worth 15 Million to the team. His 10/2 not a ridiculous amount of money. Even if you consider the .41 bump that people cite for going from NL to AL, C.A.KC Still saves the team 24 runs. So 10 Million? Just about right.

That's just how dire the pitching got last year, folks. When you're making massive changes/upgrades you have to evaluate based on your own situation, not the ideal. Sure, we'd all have loved to grab some of the higher priced free agents, as well, but it's not healthy to continue to focus negative energy on things that while not massive, actually are improvements.

I agree. That's why when my children failed a test miserably in school I always gave them credit for failing the next test less miserably. "Hey, good job junior! You only failed by 30% this time! Great improvement!"

#60 LoganJones

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

I agree. That's why when my children failed a test miserably in school I always gave them credit for failing the next test less miserably. "Hey, good job junior! You only failed by 30% this time! Great improvement!"


A 30% Improvement is a great improvement. It might still be failing, but it is improvement. Your make-believe poor parenting is not really germane to the discussion, though.

The Twins signed a player who based on the concepts of Wins over Replacement has more value than they are paying for him. Thus it's potentially a good move.