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Baltimore Sun's Connelly Thinks Saunders Isn't Winding Up In Minnesota

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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:10 AM

Last week, 1500ESPN's Darren Wolfson revealed that the Twins are waiting on Joe Saunders's camp to respond to a one-year contract offer. Now, Orioles beat writer from the Baltimore Sun, Dan Connelly, writes that he believes that if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract, he will likely stay in Baltimore or leave somewhere else for an "eye-brow raising amount of money".

Furthermore, Connelly reports that his sources say that Saunders has a two-year deal worth $15 million on the table. In addition to the Twins, the Mets and the Mariners have been connected to the left-hander.

#2 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

At this point I don't see the value in having to commit to Saunders for multiple years. Very mediocre starter over 30 so offering multiple years for a rebuilding team would seem like a bad idea. Maybe you give him 2 years if the price is right but that's it.

#3 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

We have so many pitchers showing up already that unless the Twins are going to sign a genuine impact pitcher I see no point.
It's just adding one more log to a bonfire.

#4 old nurse

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

If Saunders has a 2/15 offer out there then either
1. his agent has an offer out there for one year that f they extended it to a 2 year deal at the same pay rate it would be a better deal
2. they think he has more value
or
3. he does not want to go to the team with the two year offer.

#5 ThePuck

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:02 PM

So, we DON"T want a pitcher who is gonna give us 180+ innings with an ERA+ of 100 or higher? That'd make him, arguably, our best starter.

#6 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

If Saunders has a 2/15 offer out there then either
1. his agent has an offer out there for one year that f they extended it to a 2 year deal at the same pay rate it would be a better deal
2. they think he has more value
or
3. he does not want to go to the team with the two year offer.


Yeah, the quoted article doesn't quite make sense to say "if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract" and then go on to mention a two-year $15M deal is in the palm of his hand. At his age, he'd almost surely take the sure $15M, than gamble with (say) a one-year $10M deal if one were offered. Unless it's a team he just won't go to. Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of New York.

The Twins' 40-man is full. I was for signing Saunders until I realized they would have to expose one of these future Hall-of-Famers to a waiver claim. Can't take that chance.

#7 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

So, we DON"T want a pitcher who is gonna give us 180+ innings with an ERA+ of 100 or higher? That'd make him, arguably, our best starter.


As always it depends on the price. For $7.5M per for more than 2 years.....no.

If the Twins were a legit playoff contender and it is a win now sort of season then maybe to do it but the Twins are better served seeing what they have in some of the younger pitchers. If the younger pitchers don't show us much then maybe to look for more of a staff Ace in FA/Trade next year who is young.

#8 ThePuck

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

As always it depends on the price. For $7.5M per for more than 2 years.....no.

If the Twins were a legit playoff contender and it is a win now sort of season then maybe to do it but the Twins are better served seeing what they have in some of the younger pitchers. If the younger pitchers don't show us much then maybe to look for more of a staff Ace in FA/Trade next year who is young.


How will that money hurt us this year, or next year, or heck even 2015? What else are they going to do with it?

#9 johnnydakota

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

Yeah, the quoted article doesn't quite make sense to say "if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract" and then go on to mention a two-year $15M deal is in the palm of his hand. At his age, he'd almost surely take the sure $15M, than gamble with (say) a one-year $10M deal if one were offered. Unless it's a team he just won't go to. Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of New York.

The Twins' 40-man is full. I was for signing Saunders until I realized they would have to expose one of these future Hall-of-Famers to a waiver claim. Can't take that chance.

Isnt Drew Butrea on the 40 man roster?
Isnt he just a waste of space?
Who would claim him?

#10 h2oface

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

If Saunders chooses the Twins, I will shave my head. He is from northern Virginia, and Baltimore would surely give him a comparable one year deal, probably with an option for two. Jair Jurrjens is gonna excel again for the Orioles (my prediction) and outshine anything the Twins brain trust signed in their dumpster diving.

#11 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

How will that money hurt us this year, or next year, or heck even 2015? What else are they going to do with it?


IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.

#12 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

Isnt Drew Butrea on the 40 man roster?
Isnt he just a waste of space?
Who would claim him?


Sorry, I thought saying "future Hall-of-Famers" would make clear my actual view. The Twins seem to be in a funny position with their 40-man, full of players much much much too valuable to expose to a waiver claim, yet not valuable enough to flip for a decent A-ball prospect of some kind if you wanted to make room for a free agent signing.

#13 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.


I'm with you about not going 3, but nothing I have read suggests that that would be necessary. Since I don't believe 2014 is a year of genuine contention for a World Series title, it's fine with me to commit to a Joe Saunders through that year, to get us to 2015 when the kids can have a go at it. You can't let attendance plummet with 90-loss teams two more years.

#14 edavis0308

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.


Sigh.

#15 ThePuck

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.


Further hamstring? It'd put our payroll at 87M this year...with over 20M coming off the books next year and an additional 10M coming off in 2015. Those players being replaced by pre-arbitration players.

Edited by ThePuck, 29 January 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#16 Rosterman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.


That's why we have Correria at $5.5 million next season...with Worley and Diamond on staff, and Hendriks and Gibson waiting to pitch fultime, and maybe May, Meyer, Hermsen and Wimmers looking for a roster spot, too. Hope Correria has some takers after his 2013 performance.

Sauncers still isn't THAT expensive. He breathes and throws left-handed. he has a decent track record. He can offer you a bonafide veteran presence and eat innings. I would rather be looking at Sauncers, for even $7-8 million, as a back pof the rotation starter and tradebait this year or next, provided he doesn't pull a Capps and Pavano on us.\
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#17 nicksaviking

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

My issue with signing Saunders to multiple years mostly has to do with the fact that the front office could use it as an excuse to neglect the free agent pitching markent next off season. Though the 2014 pitching crop doesn't look strong at the moment, things could change. If there is a decent chance that the Twins will point to Saunders' salary and roster spot and say they can't afford the space or the money when there is a legit better option on the market who the Twins had a shot at snagging, I don't want Saunders.

I realize that neather salary or roster spots should be a concern, but I don't want the front office to have any excuses for neglecting the rotation next year either. Additionally, I'd hate for the Twins to sign Saunders and have the front office crow about how well they did with free agency this off season. Signing another back-of-the rotation starter is not impressive and I'd hate for the front office to pat themselves on the back about doing so. They need to clean house and in my opinion, their inactivity is the best shot at getting that accomplished. I'd hate for them to point to Saunders and say "We tried!" when in fact they clearly didn't.

#18 snepp

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line.


The reputation of the team, declining attendance, and the downward spiral of payroll. Fielding a better team and winning more games is sorely needed.

To the "hamstringing" portion of your comment, does that ground really need covering again? Have you looked at the payroll obligations in the future?

#19 edavis0308

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

The reputation of the team, declining attendance, and the downward spiral of payroll. Fielding a better team and winning more games is sorely needed.

To the "hamstringing" portion of your comment, does that ground really need covering again? Have you looked at the payroll obligations in the future?


Sign Punto to a three year deal! He's a gamer and a winner and plays the game the right way!!!!!!111!!

#20 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

Further hamstring? It'd put our payroll at 87M this year...with over 20M coming off the books next year and an additional 10M coming off in 2015. Those players being replaced by pre-arbitration players.


You guys really need to read what I said.

We know that the Twins will be back to "managing" the budget. So while I think there is more money to be spend who knows what the front office thinks. I'm guessing they're not going be spending over $90M for a while which puts them in the middle of the league. If you have $20m coming off the books next year, $7-$8M is over 1/3 of that.

Mourneau will be a FA, you might want to keep him around if this season goes well. Maybe there are better options to be had in 2014-2015 than Suanders. If you keep Morneau because he had a big year, and have Saunders on $8M you pretty well have decided not to do much in FA signings because the Twins are not going to be going to $100M+ any time soon.

So you have to make these signings figuring that they'll looking for a payroll of $80-$90M the next year or two. So if we say they don't resign Morneau and drop Blackburn and Casilla they will have something like $21-$22M "off the books". Seems to me that counting on the Twins getting rid of Morneau isn't wise. The Twins seem fairly loyal to him and I think barring a total meltdown this year like he had the past two there's no way they don't resign him unless the salary he demands gets huge.

All I'm saying is that Saunders may not fit the longterm goals of the team and if you have to commit to him for 3+ years and $24M I'm not sure it's really that great of signing. He may help this year but personally I would rather see some younger pitchers see some MLB time so we can see what the Twins have for the future. We have Gibson and some other younger pitchers that we need to find out about so the Twins can move forward. They have a lot of arms showing up at ST this year and I can't see where Saunders will be a sure to be significantly better than some of the other options they have.

#21 edavis0308

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

You guys really need to read what I said.

We know that the Twins will be back to "managing" the budget. So while I think there is more money to be spend who knows what the front office thinks. I'm guessing they're not going be spending over $90M for a while which puts them in the middle of the league. If you have $20m coming off the books next year, $7-$8M is over 1/3 of that.

Mourneau will be a FA, you might want to keep him around if this season goes well. Maybe there are better options to be had in 2014-2015 than Suanders. If you keep Morneau because he had a big year, and have Saunders on $8M you pretty well have decided not to do much in FA signings because the Twins are not going to be going to $100M+ any time soon.

So you have to make these signings figuring that they'll looking for a payroll of $80-$90M the next year or two. So if we say they don't resign Morneau and drop Blackburn and Casilla they will have something like $21-$22M "off the books". Seems to me that counting on the Twins getting rid of Morneau isn't wise. The Twins seem fairly loyal to him and I think barring a total meltdown this year like he had the past two there's no way they don't resign him unless the salary he demands gets huge.

All I'm saying is that Saunders may not fit the longterm goals of the team and if you have to commit to him for 3+ years and $24M I'm not sure it's really that great of signing. He may help this year but personally I would rather see some younger pitchers see some MLB time so we can see what the Twins have for the future. We have Gibson and some other younger pitchers that we need to find out about so the Twins can move forward. They have a lot of arms showing up at ST this year and I can't see where Saunders will be a sure to be significantly better than some of the other options they have.


A few things. Casilla is now on the Orioles. I don't believe anyone is looking to sign Saunders for three years. Two max. If Saunders was signed, he isn't the odd man out, Correia and his $10 large are. Gibson is going to have ~130 IP limit (though I'm not positive that is official). A handful of other guys are also coming off arm injuries, along with Hendriks still needing to actually put it together at the major league level. The whole starting pitching situation has been discussed at length. I dont think 2/$14 for a left handed innings eater in Saunders would be the worst move this team could make, but from what it sounds that won't be enough for us to get him anyway.

#22 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

The reputation of the team, declining attendance, and the downward spiral of payroll. Fielding a better team and winning more games is sorely needed.

To the "hamstringing" portion of your comment, does that ground really need covering again? Have you looked at the payroll obligations in the future?

Yes, I did look at the future obligations. The $20M going off the books next year is Morneau and Blackburn, but are we so sure yet that we want to part ways with Morneau? If not we might need half of that to resign Morneau and then you have $7-$8M wrapped up in Saunders as well so now you're left with $2-$3M for FA signings otherwise and that's assuming the Twins plan to say at around $87M for payroll.

#23 old nurse

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

How will that money hurt us this year, or next year, or heck even 2015? What else are they going to do with it?

Office holiday party

#24 edavis0308

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

Office holiday party


Rim shot!

#25 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

A few things. Casilla is now on the Orioles. I don't believe anyone is looking to sign Saunders for three years. Two max. If Saunders was signed, he isn't the odd man out, Correia and his $10 large are. Gibson is going to have ~130 IP limit (though I'm not positive that is official). A handful of other guys are also coming off arm injuries, along with Hendriks still needing to actually put it together at the major league level. The whole starting pitching situation has been discussed at length. I dont think 2/$14 for a left handed innings eater in Saunders would be the worst move this team could make, but from what it sounds that won't be enough for us to get him anyway.


Yes, I realize that Casilla is with the Orioles but I was just aying that him not being on the roster reduces the payroll.

I don't think it would be a bad signing but just saying that if he wants 3 years $21-$24M it's not really worth it unless you think he's going to have trade value at the end of the season. I would certainly rather have Suanders at 2/14 than Correia for 2/10 but one of those two is done already and I can't see Correia really garnering much in a trade.

#26 edavis0308

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

Yes, I realize that Casilla is with the Orioles but I was just aying that him not being on the roster reduces the payroll.

I don't think it would be a bad signing but just saying that if he wants 3 years $21-$24M it's not really worth it unless you think he's going to have trade value at the end of the season. I would certainly rather have Suanders at 2/14 than Correia for 2/10 but one of those two is done already and I can't see Correia really garnering much in a trade.


I bet Blackburn could use some veteran leadership assistance at AAA :D

#27 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

I bet Blackburn could use some veteran leadership assistance at AAA :D


God I hope they don't find a reason to sign him again...lol.

#28 sorney

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Yeah, the quoted article doesn't quite make sense to say "if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract" and then go on to mention a two-year $15M deal is in the palm of his hand. At his age, he'd almost surely take the sure $15M, than gamble with (say) a one-year $10M deal if one were offered. Unless it's a team he just won't go to. Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of New York.

The Twins' 40-man is full. I was for signing Saunders until I realized they would have to expose one of these future Hall-of-Famers to a waiver claim. Can't take that chance.



Hehehehehe. Chalk full of future HOF'ers.

#29 twinsnorth49

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

As always it depends on the price. For $7.5M per for more than 2 years.....no.


I don't think it would be a bad signing but just saying that if he wants 3 years $21-$24M it's not really worth it unless you think he's going to have trade value at the end of the season. I would certainly rather have Suanders at 2/14 than Correia for 2/10 but one of those two is done already and I can't see Correia really garnering much in a trade.



But....but.....you said this, which is it?

2/15 does nothing to "hamstring" this team.

#30 mcrow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

But....but.....you said this, which is it?

2/15 does nothing to "hamstring" this team.


Do you read? Where do I make conflicted statements?

I said if he wants more than 2/14 then no that didn't change anywhere in either of the posts you quote. I could handle 2/14 but it sounds like he wants more than that in years and money.



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