Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Am I Still Excited About Willians Astudillo?

willians astudillo
  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#21 rdehring

rdehring

    St Paul Saints

  • Member
  • 2,344 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 08:48 AM

Loved the article, Nick. Count me among those that believe Willians should get the #26 spot on this year's team.

 

And as much as we all question his defense, he is serviceable in left, at third and behind the plate (heck, third might be his best spot) . Not a guy you want playing any of them every day, but certainly competent a day a week or for a few games while someone has a nagging injury. Add that he also can play first and second, not as well, and you have the definition of what that 26th man can be.

 

Watching his winter back home, seems like he continues to get a bit better every year. Hopefully, that carries over to this season with the Twins.

  • Dman, DocBauer and MN_ExPat like this

#22 AceWrigley

AceWrigley

    Wichita Wind Surge

  • Member
  • 518 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 08:49 AM

No lack of opinions here. I agree with Seth. It's a long season and you never know how many injury/wuhan virus absences will occur. A versatile guy like Willians could come in handy. And, some here like watching him play.

  • MN_ExPat and iowaguychris like this

#23 VivaBomboRivera!

VivaBomboRivera!

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 246 posts
  • Locationwest of Jingu, east of Koshien

Posted 08 February 2021 - 08:52 AM

The Twins have raised the bar to make the roster every offseason under the new administration. This is not a bad thing. Because we like Astudillo, we should want him to raise his personal performance bar so that he can remain relevant for the club. Reminiscences and wishful thinking will not do it.
  • LA VIkes Fan likes this

#24 LylesCrocodiles

LylesCrocodiles

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 61 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:06 AM

Tortuga is emergency depth only. The argument that he can play the corners is kind of meaningless. I bet if Rocco told Rooker (or any other AAA guy we might call up) “we need you to play a couple innings at 3B today” he could figure it out. These are professional baseball players. The one position Astudillo can help is catcher. But if he continues to hit at the level he did in 2019 and 2020 (weak contact with no walks and little pop) why not just add a true defensive catcher to the 40 man to replace him.

I don’t mind him in the current role he’s slated for but if he doesn’t produce I’m not keeping him around for his hustle or clubhouse presence. He’s got to start hitting again. Period.

#25 mike8791

mike8791

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 142 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:15 AM

I don't know if Hayes/Gleeman and you are collaborating, but their latest analysis on the 26 man roster also includes The Turtle as the 26th man.Now that the all-important middle infield is well set, addition of Tortuga primarily for PH, 3rd string catcher, and fill-in at 1B/DH seems like a no-brainer.Once Kirillof is added, this should be a very formidable lineup, IF Buxton/Donaldson can be counted on for full seasons.No need now to add to the offense, assuming no trades for pitching.


#26 tarheeltwinsfan

tarheeltwinsfan

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 1,605 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:31 AM

Well written and thoughtful article. I agree 99.9 % with everything you wrote. In fact, it reminded me of some the great Sports Illustrated articles which I have read in the past. I do, however disagree that Donaldson is obviously the Twins biggest injury concern for 2021. I contend that Buck is an equal, or greater concern, when comparing the replacements at 3B and CF. I really do enjoy a piece of writing where the author invests a lot of his feelings into the article. Thanks.

  • Seth Stohs, Dman, MN_ExPat and 1 other like this

#27 sampleSizeOfOne

sampleSizeOfOne

    out to lunch

  • Member
  • 10,485 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:32 AM

Yes.

 

I am still excited about Willians Astudillo.

 

This does not interfere with my excitement for any other Twin.

 

Hopefully it does not excessively inflate my expectations, but it would be a boring world without hope.

  • MN_ExPat and rdehring like this

#28 blindeke

blindeke

    Member

  • Member
  • 677 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:44 AM

All you need to know is that, if he was out of options, he'd pass through waivers unclaimed.

  • mnfireman, LA VIkes Fan and big dog like this

#29 mini_tb

mini_tb

    Member

  • Member
  • 73 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:52 AM

While La Tortuga is a great human interest story and a seemingly great guy, he is a defensively challenged out making machine. MLB pitchers will continue to feast on his free swinging/high contact "approach". I'm ready to see Astudillo making outs in another organization at this point.
  • big dog and jud6312 like this
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

#30 Dodecahedron

Dodecahedron

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:56 AM

 

All you need to know is that, if he was out of options, he'd pass through waivers unclaimed.

 

Though this is true that he would not be claimed, I wonder if he truly has options left. The minors did not exist last year, which should have been his last option year. He was certainly not with the MLB team all year.

 


#31 jud6312

jud6312

    St Paul Saints

  • Member
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:17 AM

 

Superstar, no. Place on a contending team? Why not?

 

He is a good guy. He pushes himself hard. He is popular with fans. He hits and fields better than you describe.

Astudillo is a better player than 4 starters on the 87 Twins roster and the entire bench. Astudillo is also better hitter than 4 starters on the 91 Twins roster. I think the Twins can find a place for him.

 

You could argue that Astudillo had no place on the legendary 65 Twins, but they did not win a championship. Maybe they should have had an Astudillo.

Oh, do tell which 4 players from both '87 and '91 he is better than.

 

 


#32 jud6312

jud6312

    St Paul Saints

  • Member
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:18 AM

Having the ability to occupy space in the vicinity of a baseball position and defensive versatility are NOT the same thing.

  • Twins33 and Vanimal46 like this

#33 KFEY93

KFEY93

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 192 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:21 AM

 

Who doesn't love Willian?  He offers some flexibility with a 3rd catcher so Garver can play some first and or DH to spell other RH bats.

 

However, if there wasn't extra roster spots because of cover, I would say no, not a reliable enough player, and we are contenders.  But with a few more spots, I don't mind the depth.

I dont. Guy is a meme and a liability. 

  • Twins33 and jud6312 like this

#34 jud6312

jud6312

    St Paul Saints

  • Member
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:36 AM

 

I dont. Guy is a meme and a liability. 

I don't even like him as a meme.

  • KFEY93 likes this

#35 Dodecahedron

Dodecahedron

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:55 AM

 

Oh, do tell which 4 players from both '87 and '91 he is better than.

 

You have the same access to the data that I do. 

 

1) Go to baseball-reference.com.

2) Look up Astudillo. The good macro stats to look at for comparison to others are OPS+, WAR, dWAR (i.e., no cherry picking specific stats).

3) Pull up the 87 and 91 teams and look at the same macro stats.

 

It's a 5 minute exercise, or less.


#36 Trov

Trov

    Wichita Wind Surge

  • Member
  • 866 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:02 AM

As much as I want to root for Astudillo, mainly because he has the look of the average weekend warrior softball player and root for him.He loves to play and no one expects much from him.However, if he takes up a roster spot all year I feel we are not putting out our best lineup.Yes, he can provide a third catcher, but subpar defense.He seems to be a nice guy, and would be a huge fan fav when we are putting up 100 loss seasons, but when looking to make playoffs his value is just too low across the board.I would like to see him playing in St. Paul ready to hit the I94 drive should we need him to be back up catcher for a short period. Other than that I would not like to see him on the 26 man roster.


#37 chpettit19

chpettit19

    Cedar Rapids Kernels

  • Member
  • 268 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:04 AM

I'm not a huge Tortuga fan, although he was fun to watch when he first came up, but I wonder who those who feel so strongly about him not being on the roster would like to see in the 26th man spot. They can only carry 13 pitchers so they need to carry at least 13 hitters. I can't imagine anybody is expecting them to sign someone who is taking regular ABs from Arraez. Can't imagine they want one of the young guys sitting on the bench and getting random ABs here and there and a pity start once every couple weeks. Can't imagine they want a guy who would take OF starts or ABs away from Rooker or Kirilloff. The 26th man needs to be a veteran guy who doesn't need to get regular ABs to continue their development (those guys need to be in the minors or part of the regular rotation), but can also step in in a pinch and not look like any of us on this site would look like trying to hit major league pitching. Willians isn't going to be an all-star. He isn't going to be a starter. But, as Nick explains quite well, he is uniquely suited to the 26th man spot. 

 

Any scheduled rest for 3B, SS, 2B, and maybe LF comes with Arraez filling in. Any regular rest for OF comes with Cave filling in. Now maybe you folks want an upgrade on Cave as your 5th OF, but that has nothing to do with the 26th man spot. Then you have to have a catcher on the bench in case of injury so Jeffers or Garver are always on the bench, but are the fill in for the other for rest and you don't want your 26th man needing to take up any of their ABs. So that's 12 hitters on the roster. The 26th man should be someone who can mop up any extra ABs here and there for in game injuries and spot starts every couple weeks. Willians is uniquely qualified to fill that role.

 

If someone goes on the IL you call someone up to replace either Cave or Arraez in their roles. Or one of the catchers if they're the ones who get hurt. Willians doesn't suddenly start getting a ton of ABs, unless he's raking. But having Blankenhorn, Gordon, Kirilloff, Rooker, Celestino, or Rortvedt on the bench for 90% of the games and not getting ABs doesn't make sense. Can't imagine Marwan is ready to give up regular major league ABs to sit on the Twins bench if he can get them by signing elsewhere. In fact I can't imagine there are many guys drastically better than Willians who would be willing to play the 26th man role of limited ABs. 

 

So throw some names out. Those of you who don't want him filling that role. Who do you want to be the 26th man? Have to assume you're looking at someone from outside the organization or not currently on the 40 man. So who would you have fill that role?

  • Dman, DocBauer, Platoon and 1 other like this

#38 ashbury

ashbury

    Twins fan for life!

  • Member
  • 26,563 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:14 AM

He just wrapped up an absolutely dominant showing in the Venezuelan Winter League, where he batted .379 and led all hitters in total bases.

I don't know what level of performance it would take to get my attention, but the players I spotchecked with similar OPS to him this year are a motley collection who washed out of low-minors ball, mainly. Couple of guys with higher OPS in similar playing time had a few less total bases because bases on balls are not counted in that particular stat - we know La Tortuga doesn't like to walk. I'm glad he hit well there - better than not doing so - but the competition does not seem to be strong, below AA probably, so an OPS under 1.000 may not indicate much of anything for major league purposes.

  • Twins33 and big dog like this

Sarcasm. Just one of the many fine services I offer.


#39 Dodecahedron

Dodecahedron

    Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

  • Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:30 AM

 

I don't know what level of performance it would take to get my attention, but the players I spotchecked with similar OPS to him this year are a motley collection who washed out of low-minors ball, mainly. Couple of guys with higher OPS in similar playing time had a few less total bases because bases on balls are not counted in that particular stat - we know La Tortuga doesn't like to walk. I'm glad he hit well there - better than not doing so - but the competition does not seem to be strong, below AA probably, so an OPS under 1.000 may not indicate much of anything for major league purposes.

 

Except that Astudillo is a major league player, not a prospect. As you say, he should have performed very well against this competition -- and he did.


#40 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 1,941 posts

Posted 08 February 2021 - 11:41 AM

 

I don't mind him on the 40 man roster, kind of in the mix for 26th-28th man, the #3 catcher (preferably #4 behind Telis), able to play 3B, 2B, 1B, LF, RF, and occasionally pinch hit. He's not good defensively at any of those positions, and his offensive approach is awful. Yup, it works out from time to time. It's nice that he's got one more option left and hopefully the Twins front office will have a solid group of guys going back and forth to St. Paul. Astudillo can be part of that. 

This is where I am, EXCEPT that I like Blankenhorn, Gordon, Larnach and maybe even Tomas Tellis as the 26th man over Astudillo. The 26th man on this team is gong to paly once or twice a week and perhaps more with the injury concerns we have for Buxton, Donaldson, Arraez, and Cruz. And it's only those 4 if we assume that the ankle injuries that Simmons and Polanco have had the last couple of years don't rear their ugly heads.  

 

Why does the 26th man matter? Because they ALL matter if you want to compete for a championship. Not only that, they all matter when you have a starting/UTL group that has shown injury problems in the past. 

 

I guess my biggest issue with Astudillo is that he reminds of all those Twins teams in the past where they were selling personalities and hope instead of quality and reality. I think the possible reality is that this year's team has a chance to contend for a deep run into the playoffs, especially if we can get one more starter and a Clippard level reliever. We need guys who can really play more than guys who are fun. That's why I'm so glad Marwin is gone. Astudillo is fun and would be a great guy to have on an average type team to make them fun to watch. I'm just hoping that we're better than that. Ask yourself, would the Yankees have Astudillo or would they add a younger guy, give him a chance to play a couple of days a week and see if he can force his way into playing time? I say give Blankenhorn, Gordon or Larnach a shot and see if they can show enough to force their way into more playing time. We know what Astudillo is. Let's see if these guys are better. 

 




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: willians astudillo