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Marcum To Mets

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#141 gil4

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

amazing stuff, that duct tape...that and Simple Green. That stuff gets every damn stain out :-)


Add a Leatherman and you can fix anything

#142 Kwak

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM

I will ask this:
Would you rather gamble with low cost / potential upside - FA SPers? and use call up prospects in June if all else fails?
OR
Spend $10 to 15 million on potential (#3s) over a 2-3 year span - who will probably maintain their (#3) status for those 2-3 years?

*To me you win possibly 10 more games & remain close to .500 either way
*You can spend millions of dollars to remain under .500 / & keep your potential SP prospects from receiving quality starts in a meaningless season.
*If you are not making a run for the playoffs - get those prospects some outings. Get the kinks out this year and full go in 2014.

Most of the discussion in the threads has been about starting pitching. Those "prospects" that you refer at the AAA level are the guys we saw in 2012. I do wish those fellahs well, but have little optimism that they will form the core of a rotation to lead the Twins to playoff heaven. Yes, there are some position player prospects that are close to the major league level--but their progress is not impeded by the FA pitchers in the discussion. Spending money on potential #3s? Why do you contend that they won't be useful beyond the 2-3 year span?--even as a trade? It would be extremely optimistic to believe that the Twins already possess the pitchers in the minors who in 3 years will not only be the entire rotation but be fully successful at the major league level. Last, I (and most likely all of the posters on this thread) will not be spending any money for said #3-type-pitchers anyway, so I say "spend away" and improve this team--even if the season doesn't result in the Twins making the playoffs.

#143 Highabove

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

If you can turn 9-1 losses into 3-1 losses, it would be money well spent. It's just not about win's.
The Fans deserve a much more enjoyable product to watch.

Edited by Highabove, 25 January 2013 - 01:19 AM.


#144 glunn

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:38 AM

If you can turn 9-1 losses into 3-1 losses, it would be money well spent. It's just not about win's.
The Fans deserve a much more enjoyable product to watch.


I think that is a good point. I would add that if Marcum is decent, then he might be tradable for a pitching prospect or two around the trade deadline.

#145 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:23 AM

I will ask this:
Would you rather gamble with low cost / potential upside - FA SPers? and use call up prospects in June if all else fails?
OR
Spend $10 to 15 million on potential (#3s) over a 2-3 year span - who will probably maintain their (#3) status for those 2-3 years?

*To me you win possibly 10 more games & remain close to .500 either way
*You can spend millions of dollars to remain under .500 / & keep your potential SP prospects from receiving quality starts in a meaningless season.
*If you are not making a run for the playoffs - get those prospects some outings. Get the kinks out this year and full go in 2014.


What prospects? The Twins could throw out every decent arm they have (Worley, Gibson, Hendriks, Diamond) and they'd still need two more starting pitchers to have a "stable" rotation. So yeah, instead of taking flyers on low cost, crappy pitchers and seeing ownership pocket the extra money, I'd rather see the team pursue a few free agents that aren't awful and attempt to field a competitive team. I don't care if it only gets them to 75 wins. Ownership has a responsibility to either field a competitive team or buy into the future wholesale and trade the roster. They haven't done either and are currently riding the fence.

And, by the hand of God, if you ever find yourself with too many starting pitchers (which has roughly the same probability as being struck by lightning three times), you can trade one of your free agent acquisitions to another team.

#146 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:27 AM

Care to speculate on their final WAR rankings? Marcum has averaged 2.6 WAR over the last 3 seasons, Correia has averaged 0.27 WAR.


I'm aware of those numbers and was upon making the prediction, but the short answer is I don't care to speculate on WAR.

#147 panolo

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:59 AM

We really don't have an idea if Marcum was interested in coming here or even if the Twins made an offer. Granted I was on the bandwagon to give him a whirl but I also was weary because of his arm injury history and a large drop in velocity.

We need to be honest with ourselves and understand if we have a true #1 or #2 it isn't going to come through FA. They will be home grown pitchers. I think we also need to be resigned to the fact that until the talent in the minors is balanced from A to AAA that we will have guys like Pelfrey, Correia, etc. in this rotation. The possibility of this being changed is very near and I think they are laying the ground work for it with the trades and last years draft.

We are not a contender this year and I don't know if the value of Marcum's 3-5 extra wins is worth holding back some of the younger pitchers or if he would even add up to an attendance spike. His value would have been as a trade piece IF he stayed healthy.

#148 twinsnorth49

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

We really don't have an idea if Marcum was interested in coming here or even if the Twins made an offer. Granted I was on the bandwagon to give him a whirl but I also was weary because of his arm injury history and a large drop in velocity.

We need to be honest with ourselves and understand if we have a true #1 or #2 it isn't going to come through FA. They will be home grown pitchers. I think we also need to be resigned to the fact that until the talent in the minors is balanced from A to AAA that we will have guys like Pelfrey, Correia, etc. in this rotation. The possibility of this being changed is very near and I think they are laying the ground work for it with the trades and last years draft.

We are not a contender this year and I don't know if the value of Marcum's 3-5 extra wins is worth holding back some of the younger pitchers or if he would even add up to an attendance spike. His value would have been as a trade piece IF he stayed healthy.


Who would he have been holding back on a one year deal? Even a two year deal? So what if his value might have been as a trade piece, isn't that a good thing?

Why should we be resigned to the Pelfreys and Correia's of the world when we have the money to do better?

#149 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

We are not a contender this year and I don't know if the value of Marcum's 3-5 extra wins is worth holding back some of the younger pitchers or if he would even add up to an attendance spike. His value would have been as a trade piece IF he stayed healthy.


Who will be held back? The Twins have Diamond and Worley in the rotation. Hendriks is going to pitch himself on or off the roster no matter what. Gibson can only pitch 140 innings.

I keep hearing people say "don't hold back the youngsters" without realizing that there aren't enough youngsters to hold back.

#150 edavis0308

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

We really don't have an idea if Marcum was interested in coming here or even if the Twins made an offer. Granted I was on the bandwagon to give him a whirl but I also was weary because of his arm injury history and a large drop in velocity.

We need to be honest with ourselves and understand if we have a true #1 or #2 it isn't going to come through FA. They will be home grown pitchers. I think we also need to be resigned to the fact that until the talent in the minors is balanced from A to AAA that we will have guys like Pelfrey, Correia, etc. in this rotation. The possibility of this being changed is very near and I think they are laying the ground work for it with the trades and last years draft.

We are not a contender this year and I don't know if the value of Marcum's 3-5 extra wins is worth holding back some of the younger pitchers or if he would even add up to an attendance spike. His value would have been as a trade piece IF he stayed healthy.


Nobody around here had any expectation whatsoever of signing a true #1 or true #2. None. All anyone around here asked for was one of the pitchers in the #3 category.

#151 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

Wow, 1 year $4 million plus incentives. Base salary is 40% of what the Twins paid Corriea.

#152 lightfoot789

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

I keep hearing people say the FO can do so much better with getting FAs here. As if they never tried. The fact is no one knows if they have or not. The thread that should be circling is "Who is the Best FA the Twins has ever signed?" Then ask why? Is it management or that players just don't want to come to the Northern part of the country? Name a Top FA to come to MN in recent years? Top!!!

You can only get top tier players in MN from farm system or trades. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Who is the last great FA to come here?................................. In house prospects are your last hope and that winning span won't come for more 2 years. But when it does - look out.

#153 PseudoSABR

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

Wow, 1 year $4 million plus incentives. Base salary is 40% of what the Twins paid Corriea.

Wow is right. There really must be something in his health profile. Can't believe he couldn't get more than that...

#154 panolo

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

Nobody around here had any expectation whatsoever of signing a true #1 or true #2. None. All anyone around here asked for was one of the pitchers in the #3 category.



When was the last time we payed a starter $12+ per that wasn't named Johan? Maybe if there was one on the market for $8-10 per they may have bit. Go look at what some of these guys got. I would have rather kept Baker than sign Marcum if it cost $6 mil plus.

I like Marcum but two things happened last year: He hurt his arm/shoulder and his velocity fell to 86 mph when considered healthy. Those are not awe inspiring #3 traits.

#155 ashburyjohn

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

Wow is right. There really must be something in his health profile. Can't believe he couldn't get more than that...


That's my reaction too. And it probably leaves Ryan's hands a bit tied, on how much he can say about why he didn't go after one free agent or another. Even though Marcum is signed, you can't go disparaging him, like "we thought his arm wouldn't hold up." If Marcum has a successful season, it won't be second guessing to criticize Ryan; but we have to wait a while before we know.

#156 twinsnorth49

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

I would have rather kept Baker than sign Marcum if it cost $6 mil


Ok fine, me too, but they didn't do that either, that's the issue.

#157 SweetOne69

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

Nobody around here had any expectation whatsoever of signing a true #1 or true #2. None. All anyone around here asked for was one of the pitchers in the #3 category.


Than you should be happy as I would consider Worley a legitimate #3.

#158 Please

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

4 million plus incentives was just too rich for TR...this franchise has no chance.

#159 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

I do not agree that you can only get top players here by trade or farm system. If the twins make a market offer, it is as likely to be accepted here as anywhere. I would posit they do not make big offers, by choice.

#160 iastfan112

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

When was the last time we payed a starter $12+ per that wasn't named Johan? Maybe if there was one on the market for $8-10 per they may have bit. Go look at what some of these guys got. I would have rather kept Baker than sign Marcum if it cost $6 mil plus.

I like Marcum but two things happened last year: He hurt his arm/shoulder and his velocity fell to 86 mph when considered healthy. Those are not awe inspiring #3 traits.


The fact that his velocity went from 86.8 in 2008 to 86.5 last year is truly terrifying. What will he do?!

I'll take the guy who only may have a bum shoulder over the guy who's less than 12 months out from TJ surgery. If Baker had an option on his contract that would be a different story.