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Marcum To Mets

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#1 Please

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:02 AM

No dollar figures yet, but it's a one year deal.

That Correia signing just keeps on looking great.

#2 snepp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:05 AM

Wait a minute, we've been told multiple times that free agents won't sign with bad baseball teams. Surely you jest.

#3 edavis0308

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:08 AM

Dave get away from the ledge

Aw rats it removed my all caps? Just doesnt have the same effect.

#4 snepp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

Aw rats it removed my all caps? Just doesnt have the same effect.


Yeah, it's a "feature" of the board, and a lousy one at that.


Brock, can we get the all-caps protection disabled?

#5 old nurse

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

Wait a minute, we've been told multiple times that free agents won't sign with bad baseball teams. Surely you jest.


It is called limited memory on your part. The comment was top free agents are not going to sign with small and mid market team that have been at the bottom for two years. That you can only remember less than half the comment and still be a snarky butt head is what it is. Can't expect too much

Edited by old nurse, 24 January 2013 - 08:19 AM.


#6 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:27 AM

Apparently neither will second or third tier ones............of course that's because it would require...you know, offering to pay them.

#7 snepp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

It is called limited memory on your part. The comment was top free agents are not going to sign with small and mid market team that have been at the bottom for two years. That you can only remember less than half the comment and still be a snarky butt head is what it is. Can't expect too much


An elephant would have trouble remembering all of the mutating variations of your comments. Every time they get challenged they morph into something different in order for you to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about something.

I eagerly await your claims of being personally attacked (yet again), while hypocritically being the one throwing around the insults.

#8 whydidnt

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:49 AM

It will be interesting to hear how much the contract is for, but if it's in the 7 - 8 Mil range like others have been getting then it is sure frustrating that the Twins weren't in. Seems Mr. Ryan has some sort of unannounced cap and won't spend more than $5 mil/season on FA pitcher, regardless of the skill/talent level. No wonder our Pitching has been so pathetic, if the guy making decisions refuses to pay market value for quality, preferring to overspend for guys with limited skills and poor track records. It makes no sense.

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

I'm honestly to the point where I believe Ryan should be fired if he passed on one year of Marcum for $10m or less. That's dumb. Idiotic. Ridiculous. Unacceptable. It is not smart baseball management however you look at it.

And in the past 15 years, I've never called for Ryan's head. Not once.

#10 Nick Nelson

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

It is called limited memory on your part. The comment was top free agents are not going to sign with small and mid market team that have been at the bottom for two years. That you can only remember less than half the comment and still be a snarky butt head is what it is. Can't expect too much


Lighten up and cut it out. There's no need to drag this bickery muck onto every thread. Plenty of people have argued some variation of the "good players won't sign with bad teams" spiel; stop taking everything as a personal affront.

Anyway, as far as Marcum goes... sigh. I'm going to have to assume there were some serious red flags with the elbow because the Twins aren't the only ones who missed the boat on this guy.

#11 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:15 AM

Marcum on a one year deal would have been nice. I wonder why he couldn't get more. Did he want a make good contract or is there that much question about his health.

#12 old nurse

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

An elephant would have trouble remembering all of the mutating variations of your comments. Every time they get challenged they morph into something different in order for you to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about something.

I eagerly await your claims of being personally attacked (yet again), while hypocritically being the one throwing around the insults.


Is it personally insulting to say to you have a limited memory when you chose to only remember half the line? Is it a personal insult to say you are snarky butt head? That you chose to half assed remember something you disagree with and throw it out in a snarky comment is not a personal attack on me. I just look at it for what it is. Your eagerly awaiting comment is what it is. Really, you are eagerly awaiting? Wow.

#13 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Is it personally insulting to say to you have a limited memory when you chose to only remember half the line? Is it a personal insult to say you are snarky butt head? That you chose to half assed remember something you disagree with and throw it out in a snarky comment is not a personal attack on me. I just look at it for what it is. Your eagerly awaiting comment is what it is. Really, you are eagerly awaiting? Wow.


Stop dragging arguments from one thread to another, particularly when your name wasn't mentioned in the original post. You weren't the only one making the "players won't sign with bad teams" argument. The forum has descended into little more than personal potshots lately and it needs to stop.

#14 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

I'm honestly to the point where I believe Ryan should be fired if he passed on one year of Marcum for $10m or less. That's dumb. Idiotic. Ridiculous. Unacceptable. It is not smart baseball management however you look at it.

And in the past 15 years, I've never called for Ryan's head. Not once.


This seems a little extreme. Outside of Correia he has had an acceptable offseason.

I have been thinking of this and the only reasonjng I can think of is they felt so burned by innings last year they took the guaranteed mediocre innings over upside with increased health risk. I don't agree with the strategy.

#15 edavis0308

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

This seems a little extreme. Outside of Correia he has had an acceptable offseason.

I have been thinking of this and the only reasonjng I can think of is they felt so burned by innings last year they took the guaranteed mediocre innings over upside with increased health risk. I don't agree with the strategy.


I think the main point that is resulting in calling for his head is the glaring need for at the very least average pitching, and having PLENTY of cash to sign a few servicable guys, and really not having much to show for it while still having the cash in hand (pocket).

#16 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

Is it a personal insult to say you are snarky butt head? .


Yes, yes it is.

#17 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Stop dragging arguments from one thread to another, particularly when your name wasn't mentioned in the original post. You weren't the only one making the "players won't sign with bad teams" argument. The forum has descended into little more than personal potshots lately and it needs to stop.


As a dispassionate observer of this nonsense my thought is maybe you should give the same message to the trolls.

#18 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

This seems a little extreme. Outside of Correia he has had an acceptable offseason.

I have been thinking of this and the only reasonjng I can think of is they felt so burned by innings last year they took the guaranteed mediocre innings over upside with increased health risk. I don't agree with the strategy.


It's not about the offseason, it's about the thinking that went behind it. The trades were fantastic. I couldn't be happier with them.

But there is a Major League franchise playing in Minnesota and the payroll is over $20m below what it was two years ago. The pitching staff is still in shambles, the offense is weakened, and even the bullpen has a few question marks. At what point do fans start saying "**** you, Minnesota Twins" and take their money elsewhere? It's already begun to happen and another 90+ loss season is going to continue that trend in even greater numbers.

And what has the front office done to stop this fan exodus? They went out and signed Kevin-****ing-Correia. That's it. That was their big free agent move.

Meanwhile, Marcum is signed for a one year deal. Here are the possible situations that Marcum brings to the Twins:

1. Marcum stays healthy and is good. The Twins are miraculously competitive behind strong seasons from the youngsters and stay in the hunt. Fan attendance remains high.

2. Marcum stays healthy and is good. The Twins are still awful but with 11-12 wins at the deadline, Marcum is moved for a solid B level prospect.

3. Marcum is middling and has a few injury problems. The Twins are awful and at the deadline, Marcum is moved for a low C prospect.

4. Marcum's arm falls off. The Twins are out $10m they weren't going to spend anyway and have zero commitment for 2014.

Fans have every right to be really ****ing pissed off about this offseason. This pretty much guarantees that I won't be buying tickets. I'll take the free tickets I come across several times a year but this team won't get my money for a ticket. They don't deserve it.

#19 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

As a dispassionate observer of this nonsense my thought is maybe you should give the same message to the trolls.


It applies to everyone.

#20 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

I think the main point that is resulting in calling for his head is the glaring need for at the very least average pitching, and having PLENTY of cash to sign a few servicable guys, and really not having much to show for it while still having the cash in hand (pocket).


I think we can all agree on the need for better pitching. I don't necessarily agree it was possible to buy much this offseason. All the guys who signed for 1 or 2 years are different shades of meh.

The others weren't coming barring a vast overpay.

#21 Top Gun

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

It's hard to get excited about the Twins, when it's plain to be seen that the F.O. isn't even trying to put a major league team on the field.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

I think we can all agree on the need for better pitching. I don't necessarily agree it was possible to buy much this offseason. All the guys who signed for 1 or 2 years are different shades of meh.

The others weren't coming barring a vast overpay.


So what if one year deals are for "meh" players? The Twins had the worst pitching staff in baseball over the past two years. At this point, "meh" is a vast improvement.

#23 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

I don't think signing Marcum would move the needle on attendance. But you are right the team has fundamental problems that have to be resolved and attendance will continue to drop.

#24 snepp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

In nurse's defense, he's primarily who I had in mind when making that comment, so I'm guilty of baiting in that regard.

#25 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:40 AM

I've given Ryan the benefit of the doubt on many things, mainly just taking a wait and see approach when it came to payroll spending, I actually am in favour of spending the money and believe it's the prudent thing to do, if only to increase the entertainment value for the fans.

Missing Baker for $6 million hurt but not the end of the world by any means.The Correia signing was a kick in the nuts, but still, however hopefully or naively, I was willing to wait. This however, if anywhere close to $10 million for one year is true, is utterly inexcusable and like a thick loogie to the face of any fan.

Marcum is nothing more than bland, middle of the rotation stuff on a good team, nothing to get to worked up about. But for a team so desperately in need of showing it's fans it actually gives a rat's ass about them, he represents an easy solution for that, and at one year does absolutely nothing to hinder anything. It's insulting.

#26 drjim

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

So what if one year deals are for "meh" players? The Twins had the worst pitching staff in baseball over the past two years. At this point, "meh" is a vast improvement.


They signed two of them and traded for another.

#27 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

I don't think signing Marcum would move the needle on attendance. But you are right the team has fundamental problems that have to be resolved and attendance will continue to drop.


Marcum makes the team better. A better team means more wins. More wins means better attendance.

And if the cause is so hopeless that there's no point in even trying, Willingham and Doumit should be playing somewhere else right now.

No matter how you look at it, Ryan has done a really bad job with the Major League roster this offseason.

#28 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

They signed two of them and traded for another.


They didn't sign two "meh" players. They signed one player whose shoulder is duct-taped to his torso and another guy who couldn't sniff mediocrity in the AL without divine intervention.

Totally acceptable moves if they're your 3rd, 4th, or 5th free agent acquisitions. But as your 1st and 2nd, they are abominable.

#29 twinsnorth49

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

I think we can all agree on the need for better pitching. I don't necessarily agree it was possible to buy much this offseason. All the guys who signed for 1 or 2 years are different shades of meh.

The others weren't coming barring a vast overpay.


This is true but most of the guys we have are different shades of Blech! One or two years to at least be marginally more competitive is something the team could have easliy afforded and there isn't much reason for them to have not done it.

#30 ThePuck

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

But there is a Major League franchise playing in Minnesota and the payroll is over $20m below what it was two years ago.


I'm with you...on your whole post, but I thought I'd point out it's even more than 20M below. We're about 32M below what payroll was 2 years ago. 112M in 2011.