45 replies to this topic

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It is better to have moved on a player too soon than too late. The trade trees would lead me to think that the only bad trade they made was the Shields and Davis trade

It's not about trading a player too early or too late, it's about how it looks that a team that made the World Series just traded their starting pitcher who started the final game of the season because they can't afford to compete straight-up in 2021.

 

That's an awful look for baseball and organizations, either willingly or not, pushing the envelope of "efficiency" to the detriment of immediate competition in the coming season is not good for the sport.

 

One of the two World Series teams is worse than they were 24 hours ago because they can't afford to pay one of their best players a modest salary in the coming season. This is not the kind of baseball I want to watch every year.

[AceWrigley]

 

You have to remember that people have met others along the way and know them better. They may have sounded just like your post

It's all good. Just trying to inject some humor as the Padres suck up a lot of the quality pitching resources.

[old nurse]

 

It's not about trading a player too early or too late, it's about how it looks that a team that made the World Series just traded their starting pitcher who started the final game of the season because they can't afford to compete straight-up in 2021.

 

That's an awful look for baseball and organizations, either willingly or not, pushing the envelope of "efficiency" to the detriment of immediate competition in the coming season is not good for the sport.

 

One of the two World Series teams is worse than they were 24 hours ago because they can't afford to pay one of their best players a modest salary in the coming season. This is not the kind of baseball I want to watch every year.

A game six starter renders the last game of the season argument moot. They lined up Morton for that scenario

It was not a fire sale, Tampa got a [potential front line starter, a high ceiling catcher, a high ceiling two pitch pitcher and a thus far failed prospect. That is not a sale. 

Tampa selected a site with poor access for their stadium. Their lack of revenue is their doing, not the fault of baseball as a whole.

[Mike Sixel]

 

A game six starter renders the last game of the season argument moot. They lined up Morton for that scenario

It was not a fire sale, Tampa got a [potential front line starter, a high ceiling catcher, a high ceiling two pitch pitcher and a thus far failed prospect. That is not a sale. 

Tampa selected a site with poor access for their stadium. Their lack of revenue is their doing, not the fault of baseball as a whole.

 

I think Brock's point is....they do this all the time. Fans identify with players, not just jerseys, and that is impossible with the Rays. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think Brock's point is....they do this all the time. Fans identify with players, not just jerseys, and that is impossible with the Rays. 

Or the A's. Or the Pirates. The massive inequity in baseball is bad for the sport as a whole, as it turns MLB into a regional entity, not the nationwide entity it needs to be to thrive. We've seen this happening for decades now as the payroll gap grows.

 

In 1990, the Royals (!!!!!) had the highest payroll in baseball at $23.8m. The lowest payroll was the White Sox (???) at $8.5m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 40% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 67% of the highest payroll team.

 

In 2019, the Red Sox had the highest payroll in baseball at $222.2m. The lowest payroll was the Rays at $60.4m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 27% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 56% of the highest payroll team.

[tony&rodney]

The NFL became what it is because of revenue sharing. Each team could draft and coach their way to the playoffs. The payrolls across the teams are relatively balanced and every team makes bank every year.

Baseball has made money in some areas but declined in spots as well. The ability of the Yankees or Dodgers and a few other teams to simply outspend their competitors is accepted, despite the obvious fact that the competitions would not be possible without the participation of all of the parts. A league of the top ten spenders would hold little widespread interest nationally. On the other hand, markets like St.Louis and San Diego can spend at or slightly above the median while similar markets much less. 

Suffice it to say that MLB has been unable to advance its product to near the level of the talent displayed on the field. The sanctity of the owners would likely be news to the actual owners who are just following their advisors's voice. 

Snell goes to the Padres in an aggressive move to compete immediately from Day 1. They follow it with a gamble in just dollars with their addition of Darvish. 

Looking forward to a great summer of baseball.

[old nurse]

 

Or the A's. Or the Pirates. The massive inequity in baseball is bad for the sport as a whole, as it turns MLB into a regional entity, not the nationwide entity it needs to be to thrive. We've seen this happening for decades now as the payroll gap grows.

 

In 1990, the Royals (!!!!!) had the highest payroll in baseball at $23.8m. The lowest payroll was the White Sox (???) at $8.5m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 40% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 67% of the highest payroll team.

 

In 2019, the Red Sox had the highest payroll in baseball at $222.2m. The lowest payroll was the Rays at $60.4m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 27% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 56% of the highest payroll team.

When the Cubs were bad they were still a well attended team. The Cardinals send players away regularly, yet they draw .  Players draw fans you say. Twins attendance dropped like a rock in spite of Pucket after 1992. Look at the history of Pittsburg. Getting to the wild card drew fans. Way back when the were we are family they were one of the top drawing teams. The Oakland team has been playing in a dump for how many years? That is the fault of the rest of baseball? Revenue sharing is there.  Statistica  says that the Rays in 2019 had over 260 million in revenue. Forbes will tell you the same thing and that they made 68 million. Tampa is not poor

[biggentleben]

 

A mid rotation starter in the last year of his deal and 4 teenage lottery tickets is “half their minor league system”??

It was a salary dump for the Cubs. A pretty embarrassing salary dump from an iconic baseball brand. This is a bad look for MLB.

Because YOU don't know the players doesn't mean they aren't excellent players. Dealing with the age and contract factor attached to Darvish, the Cubs got a very attractive package. Frankly, in raw talent, it's more than I'd have paid if I were GM.

[old nurse]

 

I think Brock's point is....they do this all the time. Fans identify with players, not just jerseys, and that is impossible with the Rays. 

They came out in handfuls for Pucket after 1992, not droves. Outside of Kershaw how many Dodgers have been there over 6 years. They did not keep Turner nor Peterson. I doubt that if they could have fans that there would not be people staying away because those two are now gone. 

[biggentleben]

 

It is better to have moved on a player too soon than too late. The trade trees would lead me to think that the only bad trade they made was the Shields and Davis trade

The Pham/Cronenworth deal is already a loss, unless Xavier Edwards somehow becomes a HOF player.

[old nurse]

 

Because YOU don't know the players doesn't mean they aren't excellent players. Dealing with the age and contract factor attached to Darvish, the Cubs got a very attractive package. Frankly, in raw talent, it's more than I'd have paid if I were GM.

None really have a pedigree unless you call being drafted in the second round something special. The percentage of 2 round players that become above average is what? Has anybody ever tracked how well 16 year old bonus babies have turned out? It is not unfair to call them lottery tickets even though they are good for 16-20 year old players. 

[Vanimal46]

Because YOU don't know the players doesn't mean they aren't excellent players. Dealing with the age and contract factor attached to Darvish, the Cubs got a very attractive package. Frankly, in raw talent, it's more than I'd have paid if I were GM.

You’re right. I don’t know these players. I trust people who are paid to know these players like K Law. He wrote in the Athletic that it’s an underwhelming package of prospects for Darvish.

[old nurse]

 

The Pham/Cronenworth deal is already a loss, unless Xavier Edwards somehow becomes a HOF player.

So the prospects Chicago received made trading Darvish worthwhile yet the ranked prospect the Rays got is somehow worthless unless he turns into a HOF player..  Maybe Cronenworth is the second coming of Merrifield. Maybe not. He now appears to be anointed superstar status off from a few games,  Coupled with Vanimal’s comment all I am allowed to say is wow.

[Brock Beauchamp]

When the Cubs were bad they were still a well attended team. The Cardinals send players away regularly, yet they draw . Players draw fans you say. Twins attendance dropped like a rock in spite of Pucket after 1992. Look at the history of Pittsburg. Getting to the wild card drew fans. Way back when the were we are family they were one of the top drawing teams. The Oakland team has been playing in a dump for how many years? That is the fault of the rest of baseball? Revenue sharing is there. Statistica says that the Rays in 2019 had over 260 million in revenue. Forbes will tell you the same thing and that they made 68 million. Tampa is not poor

No, winning draws fans and a World Series team just traded away a good player for budgetary reasons.

I don’t know why you’re being so obstinate about that being bad for baseball as a whole.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because YOU don't know the players doesn't mean they aren't excellent players. Dealing with the age and contract factor attached to Darvish, the Cubs got a very attractive package. Frankly, in raw talent, it's more than I'd have paid if I were GM.

 

I can't find one analyst that agrees with this stance. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

They came out in handfuls for Pucket after 1992, not droves. Outside of Kershaw how many Dodgers have been there over 6 years. They did not keep Turner nor Peterson. I doubt that if they could have fans that there would not be people staying away because those two are now gone. 

 

I believe I was saying what Brock's point was, not mine......I agree, winning is the most important thing, but I also think it isn't hte ONLY thing....YMMV, of course, I have no horse in this race.

[nicksaviking]

 

Or the A's. Or the Pirates. The massive inequity in baseball is bad for the sport as a whole, as it turns MLB into a regional entity, not the nationwide entity it needs to be to thrive. We've seen this happening for decades now as the payroll gap grows.

 

In 1990, the Royals (!!!!!) had the highest payroll in baseball at $23.8m. The lowest payroll was the White Sox (???) at $8.5m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 40% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 67% of the highest payroll team.

 

In 2019, the Red Sox had the highest payroll in baseball at $222.2m. The lowest payroll was the Rays at $60.4m.

 

The lowest payroll team had a payroll of 27% of the highest payroll team. The median team had a payroll of 56% of the highest payroll team.

 

Yeah, in the early 1990's the Royals, Twins and A's were often the big spenders. MLB needed collusion to work without a salary cap and floor and reasonable revenue sharing. It's not working now.

 

It's really not about the Rays being smart moving players prior to them busing, they should have the option to go either way. 

 

Pittsburgh is the worst of the bunch though, and they often get a pass. The other mid market teams at least bump payroll for a half decade once they get a new stadium.Pittsburgh got their new stadium and jumped to the middle of the pack in payroll for only one year. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's really not about the Rays being smart moving players prior to them busing, they should have the option to go either way.

Exactly.

As for Pittsburgh, my belief that MLB needs more financial equality is completely separate from my belief that Pittsburgh’s ownership is rotten. I will not defend that organization.

[Rosterman]

 

Twins equivalent something like:

 

Balazovic - Patino

Jeffers - Mejia

Enlow - Wilcox

Canterino - No young catcher so pay the pitching price

 

In this guys opinion, that'd be an overpay, unfortunately, SD just set the market for SP trades pretty high

 

I WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS. I would just "buy" a free agent.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

 

Which FA starter is that good this year? Or even close?