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Addressing The Twins Greatest Need

utility player ketel marte chris taylor
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#1 Doctor Gast

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 08:33 AM

For many MN fans, starting pitching is the greatest concern. I agree that you can never get enough of good pitching but last year our starting rotation did a wonderful job. The core of that rotation is coming back & our options to fill any holes are limitless depending on what level of pitcher you're looking for & how much you want to pay.Maybe to others it's BP but I agree w/ FO that those holes can be filled internally & affordable FAs

 

IMO where we were hurt the most last year was injuries, we had a lot of players playing hurt& on the IL. This really hurt us especially when Buxton & Donaldson were down, we had no one who could take up the slack. We need some one for some time to be able to take up that slack. CF & SS are IMO the most important positions on the field & we need a super utility player to be able to fill in when needed at those position. My 1st choice is Ketel Marte (26) AZ, he can play both those positions very well, he has a great bat w/ power & 4 yrs of team friendly control. If the Twins can land that trade I`d be very happy but it won`t be cheap. I think we`d be looking at trading (Kiriloff or Larnach) w/ one or two higher prospects, probably one a pitching one.. 

 

My 2nd choice is Chris Taylor (29) LAD

 

https://www.baseball...tility-players/

 

He doesn't have the power that Marte has but still he's a good hitter that can become better. Taylor is fast & can play a very good CF but where heexcels is at SS. I'd like to switch Polanco to 2B & put Taylor at SS. Arraez I'd place at primary DH along w/ utility & PH duties. I believe Polanco is suited at 2B & will excel there w/o the extra stress, he can become that hitter that is capable of. When everyone is healthy we can become one of the best defenses. If Buxton is hurt he fill in admirably, when Donaldson is hurt he covers the ground that is lacking.

 

Kiké Hernández is my 3rd choice. He might be a better crisis hitter than Taylor but Taylor is a much better SS. Hernándezmaybe more available but Taylor is more affordable.

I`m not really interested in any other super utility players because they don't fit my criteria of the ability of quality SS & CF defense

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#2 Doctor Gast

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 08:39 AM

What I forgot to mention was that to obtain Taylor we'd need to trade a low prospect. Taylor has only 1 yr. of control after that Lewis can be used & Taylor can be extended if needed


#3 Vanimal46

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 09:00 AM

I concur Doctor Gast. Super utility is the team's greatest need this offseason. Marwin Gonzalez was a huge detriment to the lineup this season, and one of several reasons why they declined as a whole. 

 

Ketel Marte would be a huge acquisition for the squad. I'm all for it, even if it includes a top prospect and other intriguing players. There are plenty of left handed bats he could sub in for on a daily basis to keep everyone fresh. 

 

Another thought I've had recently is upgrading SS using the budget savings from letting one of Rosario or Cruz hit the market. Andrelton Simmons would be an enormous defensive upgrade at SS, and he has enough pop in the bat to make it tolerable. If they did something like that, either Polanco or Arraez is your new super utility guy. 

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#4 4twinsJA

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 10:56 AM

Where are some of the Twins prospects in development, Celestino is on the 40 man roster. Is he an option at CF if Buxton gets hurt. I am ready to move on from Cave/Wade. Lets see Kirilloff, Rooker, Larnach, and Celestino. SS is further behind in development, Lewis may be a year away. I like Simmons at SS, then go within organization for other players. Pitching, sign midlevel FA to compete for 4th spot, and maybe a veteran FA like Chacin from last year for depth. Also feel need to sign FA relief pitcher that could help in high leverage situations and maybe a cheap veteran FA for depth. I feel Twins have a lot of quality pitching prospects on verge of MLB, but can't have too much pitching.

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#5 Doctor Gast

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 11:48 AM

 

Where are some of the Twins prospects in development, Celestino is on the 40 man roster. Is he an option at CF if Buxton gets hurt. I am ready to move on from Cave/Wade. Lets see Kirilloff, Rooker, Larnach, and Celestino. SS is further behind in development, Lewis may be a year away. I like Simmons at SS, then go within organization for other players. Pitching, sign midlevel FA to compete for 4th spot, and maybe a veteran FA like Chacin from last year for depth. Also feel need to sign FA relief pitcher that could help in high leverage situations and maybe a cheap veteran FA for depth. I feel Twins have a lot of quality pitching prospects on verge of MLB, but can't have too much pitching.

I have high hopes for Celestino but he hasn`t played any higher than A+. In the beginning of '21 I'm sure he won`t be ready to step in to sub for Buxton. I like to see him have more experience in AA & AAA & show that he can hit there. Probably '22, he`ll have the experience & development to sub for Buxton along w/ Lewis at SS. That what makes Taylor interesting because he has only 1yr. control

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#6 Doctor Gast

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 05:14 PM

I'm new to Twins Daily but I was thinking about the Dozier/ LAD trade 2018 & almost trade in 2017 & the lack of depth & quality up the middle especially after losing Dozier. Was there any talk about getting Chris Taylor in the trade? I don't know if the FO mentioned him but I know that Twins Daily sure did!

 

 

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Thrylos
Oct 20 2017 06:23 PM
Unless you really know who was on the table, you cannot judge a non-made trade.

 

Let's say that the Dodgers, in addition to DeLeon, to sweeten the trade they wanted to throw in a journeyman infielder to play second base for the Twins, named Chris Taylor; if that were the case, I'd say that the Twins were the losers in this non-trade.

 

You never know unless you know all the names discussed and what the final offer was.

You, flpmagikat and Lefty74 like this  

 

 

Many members thought the same. We were in desperate need back then, why wasn't he on the table? even w/ the Graterol trade why wasn`t he? Just think what would have been if we had a proven Taylorplaying SS (he's an excellent SS) or subbing Buxton these last 3 yrs.? Instead of a loser Forsythe. 


#7 mike8791

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 01:46 PM

Hey Doc!Glad to see the question of what is Twins greatest need now.Just can't agree that a utility infielder/OF leads the list.Let's consider other top needs:

 

1. The bullpen has lost some key arms.Rogers had a very shaky season.Was this a one-off or beginning of a decline?A FO serious about breaking the playoff jinx needs a shutdown bullpen, starting with a closer.Duffy was great, Rogers so-so, and maybe Robles will fill a key role.Wouldn't Rosenthal, Hand, Roberto Osuna, or Yates be a significant upgrade?

 

2. Second place should go to the rotation.Yes, Maeda, Berrios and Pineda seem to be a very good top three.Each have question marks.Can Maeda maintain hisstopper status over a 162 game season?Berrios has bever lived up to his ace potential; just too erratic.And Pineda has a track record of injuries and some personal issues.Can he be counted on over a 162 game season.We need at least one other above average starter.Snell, Darvish and Bauerare out of reach.There's a big falloff in next tier(though I would like to see Odo brought back).This leaves a trade as preferred way to go, with Sonny Gray or Castillo being most desirable. Again, big falloff after those 3.

 

3. Third in importance is the DH.I would hope the FO is not merely waiting for MLB to decide on the NL's use of the DH.Instead of just waiting for Cruz to decide, they need to make him a final offer or move on to other candidates.Waiting until the last minute most likely would result in a marginal player being slotted into the DH spot.Without Rosario's production, this puts even more pressure on the return players who slumped so badly in 2020.

 

4.And yes, after above 3 holes filled, sign a good backup IF.Any one of your three picks would be great, but not at the expense of preventing the other 3 needs to be filled.

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#8 nicksaviking

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 02:02 PM

I might rather look externally for a SS and see about Polanco being that super utility player. 

 

I don't like glove only players like Simmons or Kike Hernandez though. I'd probably only be interested if it was someone like Gregorious or a trade for a strong bat.


#9 cmoss84

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 02:14 PM

A few things to throw my 2 cents at:

 

1) Marte is so, so good. Just don't see us giving up the prospects necessary to land him.

 

2) Chris Taylor is a good ball player. I have seen a lot of Dodgers games-both on TV and in person. He makes some great plays wherever he plays in the field, then makes some horrible ones that leave you wondering how he can play defense at the MLB level. Solid bat and he is a body to put at multiple positions. Too inconsistent for my liking. Kike is a nice player-but I would only spend money on him if the price is right. 

 

3) Starting Pitching: has to be #1 priority. Kluber just threw today...he is a major bounce back candidate. Many people might not remember how good he was even in 2016-2018-probably because we did not want him to be good for CLE. I would love to throw a 2-3 year, incentive based contract his way. At any rate, we need to sign multiple SPs and hope at least a couple can contribute, or we are in trouble-even making the playoffs...let alone winning a playoff game.  

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#10 Doctor Gast

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 03:06 PM

Kluber pitched today and looked pretty impressive. There was 25 teams watching so there could be some competition in signing him. Hope they do

#11 sampleSizeOfOne

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 03:35 PM

Apparently Swarzak also threw at the Kluber work out.

 

Maybe he impressed?


#12 Doctor Gast

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:59 PM

 

Apparently Swarzak also threw at the Kluber work out.

 

Maybe he impressed?

I'd say he was nothing to write home about because they didn't

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#13 DocBauer

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 08:08 PM

Just my opinion but I think the Twins interest in a SS, 1 or 2yr deal format, is real. I also agree the Twins want and need to shore up the infield depth/versatility. While I do believe the organization may trade for a SP, my hunch is that would be the only trade they would make.

There are 3 very good and very interesting FA SS available. I think the interest in Semien is real, but all 3 options are intriguing and bring something different to the table. Multiple $ predictions have any or all 3 coming in at around $14-15M. Maybe. But as crazy as this market is, I'm not so sure those numbers aren't a $1-2M high. But I guess we will see.

Polanco then, probably, becomes an almost everyday super utility option. But they need one more. Feel like I'm beating a dead horse but if you take time to look through the available "utility" options, the market is very, very deep with a number of guys who can cover 3-4spots and some with decent bats or at least useful bats. And with the depth available, there is going to be $ value there.

Sign a SS. Then sign that 11th man option to work with Polanco. You keep your prosoects unless there is a SP option you like more than the FA out there. After that, there is still great BP to still add an arm or two.

I'm staying away from the DH/OF option right now as it's been discussed enough and I'm not sure it applies directly to this particular OP.

But just to toss this out there, I do find it curious that nobody has been talking about Pillar any longer. Regardless of how the DH/OF bat situation turns out, is Pillar going to be a potentially cheap option as a nice 4th OF option?
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#14 tony&rodney

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 09:31 PM

Starting and relief pitching and a couple of bats with some insurance for the middle infield have been the needs since last season ended. There has been considerable speculation and support for allowing young prospects to hold at least one of the hitting slots, if not both. Apparently, there is increased interest in adding a top shortstop as well. No doubt a strong addition could help, especially if our middle infielders are not fully recovering from their injuries. There does seem to be more available players than there are teams willing to spend. This may help with final negotiations for the Twins even as they miss on the top available talents.

The trade market seems so unpredictable and it would be something to complete a trade with the Reds for Sonny Gray and/or Luis Castillo.

The wild card remains ... where does the roster budget settle? The Twins should be good at $100 million, but the options open as the number rises. A final figure near $150 million, while seemingly unlikely, remains a real possibility and even a more acceptable midpoint around $120 million (an often noted number) leaves some very valuable moves to be made in the next month.

Kluber, Rosenthal, and Adrianza would add less than $20 million to the current rolls, Is that enough?

Walker, Hill, Yates, and Semien add about $25+ million. Odorizzi, Paxton, Bradley, and Kike add $35 million. There are so many options it is almost impossible to accurately guess the opening day roster.

I do think that a starting pitcher is our biggest need and would gamble on Cory Kluber. Next - a reliever.

However, I'm still hoping for a big trade as well. It's a circular discussion.


#15 Doctor Gast

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 08:51 AM

 

Hey Doc!Glad to see the question of what is Twins greatest need now.Just can't agree that a utility infielder/OF leads the list.Let's consider other top needs:

 

1. The bullpen has lost some key arms.Rogers had a very shaky season.Was this a one-off or beginning of a decline?A FO serious about breaking the playoff jinx needs a shutdown bullpen, starting with a closer.Duffy was great, Rogers so-so, and maybe Robles will fill a key role.Wouldn't Rosenthal, Hand, Roberto Osuna, or Yates be a significant upgrade?

 

2. Second place should go to the rotation.Yes, Maeda, Berrios and Pineda seem to be a very good top three.Each have question marks.Can Maeda maintain hisstopper status over a 162 game season?Berrios has bever lived up to his ace potential; just too erratic.And Pineda has a track record of injuries and some personal issues.Can he be counted on over a 162 game season.We need at least one other above average starter.Snell, Darvish and Bauerare out of reach.There's a big falloff in next tier(though I would like to see Odo brought back).This leaves a trade as preferred way to go, with Sonny Gray or Castillo being most desirable. Again, big falloff after those 3.

 

3. Third in importance is the DH.I would hope the FO is not merely waiting for MLB to decide on the NL's use of the DH.Instead of just waiting for Cruz to decide, they need to make him a final offer or move on to other candidates.Waiting until the last minute most likely would result in a marginal player being slotted into the DH spot.Without Rosario's production, this puts even more pressure on the return players who slumped so badly in 2020.

 

4.And yes, after above 3 holes filled, sign a good backup IF.Any one of your three picks would be great, but not at the expense of preventing the other 3 needs to be filled.

It's good that we can disagree & not be disagreeable. 

 

# 1)The Twins have found the secret of a successful BP. Find pitchers that they can work w/ & tweak them plus bring up AAAA pitchers & rotate them in & out. As much as I'd like to see FO sign Brad Hand, they've made a policy not to sign big name relievers.

 

#2) We have an excellent rotation core , even w/ injuries of Bailey, Hill & Odo they were able to keep it together. & here again they like to find pitchers w/ high upside which they can tweak. They aren't going after a high FAbecause they don't have the $ .

 

#3) DH isn't a need, we have big bats, small gloves up the ying/yang. That said my Plan A is to resign Cruz to an agreeable contract. Not because of his bat but because his role model, mentoring & clubhouse effect. Plan B DH by committee

 

#4) The most crucial positions are CF & SS

  

Jeremy Frank
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Best player individual winning percentage in 2019 (minimum 75 games played):

.693 Byron Buxton (52-23 record)
.679 Jake Marisnick (53-25)
.667 Chris Taylor (60-30)
.663 Gio Urshela (53-27)
.658 Corey Seager (50-26)

 

If you look at this list, 4 of 5 are CF or SS. The exception is Urshela (3B). All these players are glove 1st, bat 2nd. Buxton when playing we are dominate, when not we have a losing record. Polanco was an all-star not because of his glove but because of his bat. I`m not bashing Polanco, contraire I'm a big fan. He's not a SS or utility, he's a 2B. He has over extending himself & he can't continue this psychological &physicalstress. His performance has & can continue to fall.

A strong & deep middle field strengthens our pitching. From snagging a fly ball to scooping a grounder. Dobnak's ground balls arescooped up when Donaldson is playing , they go through when he's not. When his grounders go through, he has to change from his groove to trying to SO batters w/ finesse, which causes problems. The lack of middle depth is the problem. 

We can't solve every problem by throwing a bat it. Right now w/ SS & Super utility that are available we need to strike at this opportunity to resolve this problem. Lewis is our only hope internally which makes him all the more valuable to us. 

I believe we can solve this mid-field crises & all others. I believe that FO will pick a high-end pitcher before trade deadline 

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#16 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 11:14 AM

 

Just my opinion but I think the Twins interest in a SS, 1 or 2yr deal format, is real. I also agree the Twins want and need to shore up the infield depth/versatility. While I do believe the organization may trade for a SP, my hunch is that would be the only trade they would make.

There are 3 very good and very interesting FA SS available. I think the interest in Semien is real, but all 3 options are intriguing and bring something different to the table. Multiple $ predictions have any or all 3 coming in at around $14-15M. Maybe. But as crazy as this market is, I'm not so sure those numbers aren't a $1-2M high. But I guess we will see.

Polanco then, probably, becomes an almost everyday super utility option. But they need one more. Feel like I'm beating a dead horse but if you take time to look through the available "utility" options, the market is very, very deep with a number of guys who can cover 3-4spots and some with decent bats or at least useful bats. And with the depth available, there is going to be $ value there.

Sign a SS. Then sign that 11th man option to work with Polanco. You keep your prosoects unless there is a SP option you like more than the FA out there. After that, there is still great BP to still add an arm or two.

I'm staying away from the DH/OF option right now as it's been discussed enough and I'm not sure it applies directly to this particular OP.

But just to toss this out there, I do find it curious that nobody has been talking about Pillar any longer. Regardless of how the DH/OF bat situation turns out, is Pillar going to be a potentially cheap option as a nice 4th OF option?

Love this except I see Polanco as the everyday 2B with Arraez shifting to that super utility role. Polanco is a much better fielder overall and provides more lineup pop. Arraez is just too weak in the field to be the everyday 2B. Polanco upgrades the defense at 2B, new SS upgrades the defense there and Arraez plays 4-5 days a week to get his bat into the lineup at 2B, 3B, DH, LF or RF. Polanco plays SS when the starter needs a break or is injured, and the one with the stronger arm goes to 3B for those 30 plus games a year Donaldson will either miss or need to be the DH. I would then sign Adrianza as the other utility. He will be cheap, isn't too bad, and can play SS. We then save money and use that for SP or a RP.

 

I like Pillar but I think he will be too expensive and hurt our ability to sign pitching. Kepler or Cave can be the backup CF.

 

So, sign Simien or Simmons to play SS (2 year deal), Polanco to 2B, Arraez to super utility and Adrianza for backup utility. 2 of Kirilloff/Rooker/Laranch as LF/backup 1B. Cave as 4th OF. Take ALL of the rest of the money and first get 1 solid to good SP (Odo or Odo level), and sign Kluber to incentive based deal. Use the rest on Hand and Clippard if possible; if not (Hand might be too expensive), use on the best 2 relievers you can get for the money you have.  

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#17 TopGunn#22

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 06:28 PM

I written several posts on TD where I point out what a great fit Ketel Marte would be.We need to go get him.

He's 26-years old and is a very solid hitter.He would be in our lineup EVERY DAY.What makes him SO valuable to the Twins is WHERE he can play defensively.And at a high level.

He's VERY good at 2B. 

He can fill in capably at SS, 3B, and CF.I'm sure he could play a corner outfield spot at a high level as well

 

I have made this trade and it was accepted by baseballtradevalues:

 

Twins Get  

Ketel Marte61.40 value

 

D-Backs Get

Arraez 43.40

Dobnak 10.00

Cavaco 7.60

61.00 value

 

IHATE to give up Arraez, but he is light years behind Marte at 2B.Marte will hit for a lower average and maybe get on base at a lesser clip, but the HR's, 3B's and 2B's will come at a much greater clip.

And Marte, while I would play him in LF primarily (unless I swung a trade that involved Polanco--then I'd play Marte primarily at 2B) could still cover CF when Buxton misses time, 3B when Donaldson misses time or DH's.It's that versatility that makes Marte SO attractive.And he's 26 years old and under team control for several more seasons.He just plugs a LOT of holes.

 

I still think the Twins need one more "solid" starting pitcher.

That could be James Paxton--we need a LHP, Odo, Sonny, Gray, Jon Gray etc...

I'd like to see the Twins sign Mike Foltyniewicz.He's worth a gamble.

They should bring in a FA SS.Semien or Simmons would work.Didi Gregorious is probably the safest.

If they signed Ozuna he would probably play LF much of the time and there would be no Nellie Cruz.

There are SO MANY directions the Twins could go.

But I think one direction they really need to explore is Ketel Marte.

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#18 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 08:34 PM

 

It's good that we can disagree & not be disagreeable. 

 

# 1)The Twins have found the secret of a successful BP. Find pitchers that they can work w/ & tweak them plus bring up AAAA pitchers & rotate them in & out. As much as I'd like to see FO sign Brad Hand, they've made a policy not to sign big name relievers.

 

#2) We have an excellent rotation core , even w/ injuries of Bailey, Hill & Odo they were able to keep it together. & here again they like to find pitchers w/ high upside which they can tweak. They aren't going after a high FAbecause they don't have the $ .

 

#3) DH isn't a need, we have big bats, small gloves up the ying/yang. That said my Plan A is to resign Cruz to an agreeable contract. Not because of his bat but because his role model, mentoring & clubhouse effect. Plan B DH by committee

 

#4) The most crucial positions are CF & SS

  

Jeremy Frank
@MLBRandomStats
Best player individual winning percentage in 2019 (minimum 75 games played):

.693 Byron Buxton (52-23 record)
.679 Jake Marisnick (53-25)
.667 Chris Taylor (60-30)
.663 Gio Urshela (53-27)
.658 Corey Seager (50-26)

 

If you look at this list, 4 of 5 are CF or SS. The exception is Urshela (3B). All these players are glove 1st, bat 2nd. Buxton when playing we are dominate, when not we have a losing record. Polanco was an all-star not because of his glove but because of his bat. I`m not bashing Polanco, contraire I'm a big fan. He's not a SS or utility, he's a 2B. He has over extending himself & he can't continue this psychological &physicalstress. His performance has & can continue to fall.

A strong & deep middle field strengthens our pitching. From snagging a fly ball to scooping a grounder. Dobnak's ground balls arescooped up when Donaldson is playing , they go through when he's not. When his grounders go through, he has to change from his groove to trying to SO batters w/ finesse, which causes problems. The lack of middle depth is the problem. 

We can't solve every problem by throwing a bat it. Right now w/ SS & Super utility that are available we need to strike at this opportunity to resolve this problem. Lewis is our only hope internally which makes him all the more valuable to us. 

I believe we can solve this mid-field crises & all others. I believe that FO will pick a high-end pitcher before trade deadline 

Excellent analysis. and conclusions.

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#19 Doctor Gast

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 07:24 AM

I've rethought my position on getting a super utility player as my solution to this problem. Although it'd be a simple one but is it the best? My concern is how effective are they at SS and CF?
I hesitated to look at a 4th OF because we have so many. But if we sign a 4th OF that can be a great back up to Buxton, Pillar or JBJ IMO is a better idea and we can trade our excess OFs for a SS(Baez) and a SP.
We can get Adrianza as an utility

#20 Doctor Gast

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 12:34 PM

Mikelink wrote a blog "SS factory", it got me thinking. To my knowledge we haven't a legit home grown SS since Zoilo Versalles when they came over from Washington. All our great SS came out of the organization. Wouldn't it be better if they came from within? What's the problem?

My 1st       guess is we don't draft pure SSs but athletic bats that happen to play SS. That's not bad because they end up some other position but we still have a hole at SS. We have to draft some pure SSs that can hit.

2nd   we don't develop SSs.Tanner developed bats into legit catchers. As crucial as SS is we need special instructers to develop them. I've been critical of Gordon & Javier but maybe it's not their fault.Maybe we need to recruit better instructors from other more successful teams which produce great SS, maybe the Cubs.

3rd we need mentors. Kirby Puckett wasn't built to be a CF but w/ heart, hard work & a student of his field (CF) he becamea HOFer. His best attribute was that he was a mentor. He mentored Tori Hunter which mentoredDenard Span which mentored Ben Revere. Unfornately they traded both Span & Revere at the same time which ended the mentorship. Aaron Hicks & Byron Buxton have alot of potential but I think they could've used a mentor.