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Will St. Paul Saints Pay to Become Minnesota Twins Affiliate?

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#21 nowheresville

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 09:48 AM

 

St. Paul would need a league to play in.The PCL isn’t as much of a stretch geographically...but, presumably, the PCL isn’t the league looking for a replacement for Rochester.

 

St. Paul would clearly slot into the current PCL, right along with Des Moines and Omaha. 

 

Rochester isn't going away away as a AAA club, they'll just be getting a different franchise, my guess being the Nationals. In this case, St. Paul would basically be replacing Fresno (Washington's current team) who will be demoted to the California league. 

 

That said, from the sounds of it, AAA's structure is also likely to change, either with 3 leagues (east, west, central) or just making the 2 leagues unbalanced, with all of the eastern PCL teams joining the IL, leaving only actual western teams - say El Paso and west - in the Pacific Coast League. 

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#22 USNMCPO

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:27 AM

 

It certainly doesn’t hurt. Though I think the better benefit is on the player development side. No one else in baseball is able to drive 15 min to their AAA team and check out their players in real time.

The closest I can think of is Detroit. Toledo is only about 45 minutes away. The Mudhens have a very nice stadium in downtown Toledo and have pretty good attendance.

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#23 jrod23

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:48 AM

 

An A ball team 50 miles away, in a different media market, and a AAA team 12 miles away are a bit of a different story. The better comparisons would be Seattle/Tacoma or Atlanta/Gwinette which are about 35 miles between MLB and AAA. Of course they make it work - and frankly, the Saints already have shown it can work.

 

 

Gwinnett and Atlanta are a great example.Very nice stadium in Gwinnett.Even with guys like Acuna coming through, their attendance went up some, but it didn't even compare to that of Atlanta.I remember a game where Yoan Moncada, Giolito, and Ozzie Albies were all playing.I literally could count every person in the stands.The minors, even with prospects, doesn't guarantee a big draw, which I selfishly and genuinely enjoy.I'm sure St. Paul would still draw fantastically though, much the same as Lansing or Dayton (even though they have been Low-A).They have much of the same make up.


#24 Shaitan

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 11:19 AM

In the past I was skeptical of these rumors. For most indie teams, it would be a great opportunity but the Saints have a unique brand and a strong following. 

 

But I wonder if Covid has changed that tune a bit.

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#25 Shaitan

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 11:20 AM

 

Veek said he`s open to be a MLB team affiliate. I don`t know if they are open for a MLB team other the Twins, if that could be the case that`d be sad. I`d love to watch all our high prospects at CHS. To change to be an affiliate doesn`t mean they have to change how they do baseball there, does it?

 

And if not the Twins, imagine watching a division rival's top prospects play on the regular. We can all be amateur scouts.

 

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#26 chaderic20

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 11:44 AM

 

St. Paul would clearly slot into the current PCL, right along with Des Moines and Omaha. 

 

I'd love to see a Twins-affiliated Saints team come through Des Moines a couple times every year!


#27 nowheresville

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 12:01 PM

 

I'd love to see a Twins-affiliated Saints team come through Des Moines a couple times every year!

The good news for you is that even if the Saints affiliation doesn't work out, the Twins AAA team is almost certainly going to end up in the central US that will be in the same league as Des Moines. Wichita has been the other rumored landing spot. 


#28 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 12:16 PM

I think this is great. Looking forward to taking the Green Line between St. Paul & Mpls for a day/night doubleheader. Enjoy another beer or two. Eat at a restaurant along the way. 

 

As for the $20M, we the fans will pay. Building CHS Field was an investment. Whether the Twins or the Saints pony up the front end, we will pay to be entertained on the back end, little by little. Tickets will go up five bucks, beers will go up too. All the same, I will gladly pay to watch Royce Lewis field, throw, run, and hit instead of Joe Bagadonuts.

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#29 insagt1

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 05:14 PM

Being from Rochester, I will miss the Twins affiliation. While they didn;t deliver us a championship in 17 seasons, we had more winning seasons than losing. And the only reason our overall record was under .500 was two horrific seasons back to back with a terrible, unengaged, zero of a manager. I leave it to you to figure out who. The two seasons were the worst in the modern era for the Wings.

 

Rochester has been the model of stability having only 3 parent teams....St Louis, Baltimore and Minnesota. And they have been assured that they will remain in AAA. Don't know who yet, but we have been told the I.L. will have the same cities if there is a 2021 season.

 

We leave the Twins with no malice. It was a good 17 years and we wish you all well.

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#30 mikelink45

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 07:50 PM

 

They should certainly be worried about MLB and what moves they may make to control things, but why do you feel $20 mil is too much? I'd assume there's a path to significant revenue increases by being affiliated and having a more national brand while playing in front of larger road crowds and getting Twins fans who don't currently care about the Saints more interested.

The Saints already fill the stadium, what are the new revenues?How do they pay for the $20 M?What happens when the Twins stink and their minor league is in the toilet?Will people go just because it is a Twin affilitiate?


#31 mikelink45

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 07:52 PM

 

I think this is great. Looking forward to taking the Green Line between St. Paul & Mpls for a day/night doubleheader. Enjoy another beer or two. Eat at a restaurant along the way. 

 

As for the $20M, we the fans will pay. Building CHS Field was an investment. Whether the Twins or the Saints pony up the front end, we will pay to be entertained on the back end, little by little. Tickets will go up five bucks, beers will go up too. All the same, I will gladly pay to watch Royce Lewis field, throw, run, and hit instead of Joe Bagadonuts.

 

The Saints already fill the stadium, what are the new revenues?How do they pay for the $20 M?What happens when the Twins stink and their minor league is in the toilet?Will people go just because it is a Twin affilitiate?

And what happens when the Twins stink and so does their minor league?It will happen.This kind of investment needs to look long term, not just at the current situation. 


#32 Nine of twelve

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 08:00 PM

 

There’s another shoe that would need to drop, right? St. Paul would need a league to play in. They’re not a fit geographically with the IL as it currently exists...not by any stretch of the imagination. Especially heading into an era where cost containment in the affiliated minor leagues would seem to be a growing concern. The PCL isn’t as much of a stretch geographically...but, presumably, the PCL isn’t the league looking for a replacement for Rochester. FWIW, I hope the Saints stay independent. It’s a death blow to quality independent ball in the Midwest if they lose St. Paul...and I’d hate to see that.

I'll respectfully disagree with most of this post. The geography is a very minor issue. St. Paul would not be a major problem geographically for MiLB. Not at all. Look at a map of AAA franchises. St. Paul would be no more inconvenient, and probably less so, than Tacoma or Salt Lake City, not to mention the fact that Memphis and Nashville are in the PCL. And, as others have pointed out, MiLB can realign the leagues if they wish.

And to call the American Association quality independent ball is inaccurate, IMHO. Keep in mind that there is a good reason that the players in that league do not have contracts with MLB franchises. The vast, vast majority of players are simply not good enough. And that in turn is why the marketing of these teams emphasizes gimmickry rather than the quality of play. There's nothing wrong with being entertained by that, but don't try to pretend that the baseball is good. As for me, I'd much rather watch talented players learning the game and improving their skills at low-A than the has-beens, never-wases, and never-will-be's in the American Association.


#33 chpettit19

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 08:31 AM

 

The Saints already fill the stadium, what are the new revenues?How do they pay for the $20 M?What happens when the Twins stink and their minor league is in the toilet?Will people go just because it is a Twin affilitiate?

Well not having to cover player salaries would be a boost to the bottom line I'd think. The Twins can help cover the 20 mil, and I'm sure that's a large part of any negotiations happening. A bad AAA team is still better baseball than any team the Saints have ever run out there. People go now without it being a Twins affiliate and with it being less skilled baseball. I'd think there's a reason teams pay the 20 mil to become affiliated. If being independent like the Saints is the better move why would any team sign on to be affiliated? I can name you 2 dozen minor league affiliates and own merchandise from a half dozen. None of which are Twins affiliates. Being linked to MLB gives you further reach and I'd assume increases merchandise and ad revenue. Not crazy drastically, and maybe not even enough to take on the risk of the Twins kicking you to the curb in 5 years, but I don't think there's any question that not having to pay your players and adding even a little merchandise and ad revenue would be good for any team's bottom line. Just don't get why any team would sign up for it if it's a worse business decision than being independent.

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#34 Shaitan

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 09:36 AM

 

And what happens when the Twins stink and so does their minor league?It will happen.This kind of investment needs to look long term, not just at the current situation. 

 

When the Twins are bad we get bombarded with "I'd rather be in St Paul jokes."

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#35 mikelink45

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 10:37 AM

 

Well not having to cover player salaries would be a boost to the bottom line I'd think. The Twins can help cover the 20 mil, and I'm sure that's a large part of any negotiations happening. A bad AAA team is still better baseball than any team the Saints have ever run out there. People go now without it being a Twins affiliate and with it being less skilled baseball. I'd think there's a reason teams pay the 20 mil to become affiliated. If being independent like the Saints is the better move why would any team sign on to be affiliated? I can name you 2 dozen minor league affiliates and own merchandise from a half dozen. None of which are Twins affiliates. Being linked to MLB gives you further reach and I'd assume increases merchandise and ad revenue. Not crazy drastically, and maybe not even enough to take on the risk of the Twins kicking you to the curb in 5 years, but I don't think there's any question that not having to pay your players and adding even a little merchandise and ad revenue would be good for any team's bottom line. Just don't get why any team would sign up for it if it's a worse business decision than being independent.

I recommend this article from the Athletic today - https://theathletic....urce=dailyemailIt is true Independent ball clubs have difficulties, but right now I do not trust Manfred and MLB owners to do the right thing with MiLB.But I am fine if the Saints want to go that way, I remember when we had the Millers and Saints and that was fun.


#36 Major League Ready

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 11:15 AM

 

Well not having to cover player salaries would be a boost to the bottom line I'd think. The Twins can help cover the 20 mil, and I'm sure that's a large part of any negotiations happening. A bad AAA team is still better baseball than any team the Saints have ever run out there. People go now without it being a Twins affiliate and with it being less skilled baseball. I'd think there's a reason teams pay the 20 mil to become affiliated. If being independent like the Saints is the better move why would any team sign on to be affiliated? I can name you 2 dozen minor league affiliates and own merchandise from a half dozen. None of which are Twins affiliates. Being linked to MLB gives you further reach and I'd assume increases merchandise and ad revenue. Not crazy drastically, and maybe not even enough to take on the risk of the Twins kicking you to the curb in 5 years, but I don't think there's any question that not having to pay your players and adding even a little merchandise and ad revenue would be good for any team's bottom line. Just don't get why any team would sign up for it if it's a worse business decision than being independent.

 

The Saints have a good thing going so it's hard to say if $20M is a good business decision when we don't have all the facts.

 

1) What would be the salary savings?

2) What level of price increase can be made will maintaining attendance?

3) Can seating be expanded?

4) Are there other revenue sources associated with MLB affiliation?

5) Are the Twins willing to contribute? They have some cost savings. Would it build fan loyalty and increase attendance of MLB games after seeing players at AAA?


#37 Doctor Gast

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:26 AM

Along w/ the Twins pitching in to help out on the $20M, I think MN could benefitby St, Paul being AAA so the state could help out a little