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Joe Saunders

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#81 edavis0308

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:16 PM

1. Buehrle's agent did a fine job of getting his client a fourth year. No other reported offers were for more than three.
2. Evidence. If you don't have to have a single shred of evidence to back what you say and chastise me for calling you on it then I can take the reports of what Buehrle was offered and say what it means. 13 million per year offer was a better offer than anybody not named CJ Wilson got. You can look that up. Miami was so damn proud of that contract that they gave him away. A reasonable contract you should get a prospect to three back.
3. But the team does hand out large contracts. Mauer's contract to keep him from free agency was a discount. So wasn't Morneau"s.
Pavano given his age got a huge one. He was a free agent at the time and ranked by many sites as the second best pitcher available that year. And 3/39 for Buerhle last year, though outspent, was a huge offer for last year's market.


Evidence huh? Interesting.

#82 ThePuck

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

I thought you were playing the "unless it's reported we can't make assumptions" game with everyone else? Why do you insist on having different standards for your assumptions than others? It's beyond annoying at this point. I have to believe you're intentionally using this hypocrisy to troll.



Wait! Those guys pitch and we didn't use them last year! Oh, wait, you didn't read what I wrote. Should've seen that coming given your recent trolling. I won't address the other nonsense - Pavano was a huge contract to a pitcher? Seriously? That's shameful nonsense.


'Mark Buehrle has been linked to half the teams in baseball, but Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Marlins, Nationals, Rangers, and Twins are the teams known to have made the free agent left-hander a contract offer. Rosenthal writes that Minnesota’s offer is “not as strong” as the others, which he says are for three years and $36-$39 million.


So the Twins offer was less than the other teams' that offered between 36-39M. I'm reading that correctly right?

http://hardballtalk....o-mark-buehrle/

#83 TheLeviathan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:34 PM

So the Twins offer was less than the other teams' that offered between 36-39M. I'm reading that correctly right? /


Yup, how significantly behind we don't know. Unfortunately, facts don't work with trolling methinks.

#84 Nick Nelson

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

I was wondering where this "report" of the Twins offering Buehrle 3/39 came from. First I've heard of it.

Pavano given his age got a huge one.


"Huge?" He got $18 million coming off a 17-win, 220-inning season because he settled after no team wanted to give up a draft pick to sign him. Come on man. You are shredding your credibility with remarks like that.

#85 kab21

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

I really don't have a problem with Saunders at 3/21. He's unimpressive but solid. I like this better than Jackson at 52+M or Sanchez at 80+M.

The problem that I have is the lack of direction that Ryan took this offseason in FA. He had about 30M that he could have spent in FA. If Saunders is signed for 3/21 then he would have spent 17M this year and committed 35M to 3 pitchers that you hope can have 4-4.50 ERA's. And this trio of contact pitchers is in front of a horrible defense. There's nothing wrong with the dollar or year commitments but it's unimpressive considering that money is available.

#86 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

It says a lot about the free agent acquisitions this offseason that I'd rejoice if the Twins landed Saunders.

Jesus, I need a drink.

#87 old nurse

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

I was wondering where this "report" of the Twins offering Buehrle 3/39 came from. First I've heard of it.



"Huge?" He got $18 million coming off a 17-win, 220-inning season because he settled after no team wanted to give up a draft pick to sign him. Come on man. You are shredding your credibility with remarks like that.

Now wins count towards a player's value? Lost count of the people blasted for saying wins matter on this board. Forgot about the draft pick. That draft pick though was top 15 protected. The Cubs, White Sox,and Mets were all teams that would have been in the top 15 thus pushing the pick to the second round and thus not a top 50 pick. Did the big spendings clubs really worry about the pick when they thought the player would help them win? For a player that was not a superstar, that year it was a very good contract. Consider that two years prior to that contract he was worth 1.5 million. Traded for Yohan Pino. 18 million is great money for that track record.

Edited by old nurse, 16 January 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#88 old nurse

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Yup, how significantly behind we don't know. Unfortunately, facts don't work with trolling methinks.


Still can't comment without using vitriol? If I were trolling I would have said that Saunders should come here because he could have Butera as his personal catcher. I could have included Butera would instantly make him a lot better pitcher with his superior game calling ability. I really can't go any further with an example of a trolling type of comment for fear of someone actually not reading very well and thinking I am serious about Butera.

#89 snepp

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

nurse has become the victim yet again, this thread is now complete.

#90 old nurse

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

Not a victim unless that is the way you want to look at it and you obviously do. I did take it as a personal attack to be called trolling. It had nothing to do with the point being made. That some here insist on personal attack rather than focus on the idea is annoying. Would I have been better to just said that was a butt hole remark, the type I expect out of you?

#91 Thrylos

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:36 PM

The way it is, with the likes of the Correia signing, Twins' prospects are not only blocked this season (I doubt that more than one of Hendriks or Gibson will see the majors this year with no injuries) but 2014 as well (Diamond, Correia, Worley, Gibson, Hendriks) . So Meyer and Mays and Wimmers and the rest will see action in 2015 unless people are traded/ineffective.

Saunders' skills are no better or worse than Diamond's. And they are fine for a #3 or #4 pitcher in a contender.

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#92 TheLeviathan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:38 PM

Still can't comment without using vitriol? If I were trolling I would have said that Saunders should come here because he could have Butera as his personal catcher. I could have included Butera would instantly make him a lot better pitcher with his superior game calling ability. I really can't go any further with an example of a trolling type of comment for fear of someone actually not reading very well and thinking I am serious about Butera.


I fail to see how your comment about Pavano is any different. Or, for that matter, how your relentless inability to understand what "evidence" is any different.

I simply can't believe anyone could argue the points you have the last few weeks with a straight face. It's not possible. I've tried to point out the massive, gaping flaws in your "arguments" and you just keep going. It's not an insult, that's the definition of trolling.

#93 jorgenswest

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

It looks as if the last few pitchers in the deep market are running out of suitors. The Twins still have money in their pockets. Maybe they can get a bargain out of what is left and flip them at the deadline.

#94 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

Minor point, but Pavano didn't get $18m, he got 2 yrs plus a team option and $16.5.

and I'm still waiting for proof of the 3/39 offer to Buehrle.

#95 old nurse

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

I fail to see how your comment about Pavano is any different. Or, for that matter, how your relentless inability to understand what "evidence" is any different.

I simply can't believe anyone could argue the points you have the last few weeks with a straight face. It's not possible. I've tried to point out the massive, gaping flaws in your "arguments" and you just keep going. It's not an insult, that's the definition of trolling.

posting just to piss you off? There is a concept. Can you find the gaping hole in your argument?

#96 kab21

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

The way it is, with the likes of the Correia signing, Twins' prospects are not only blocked this season (I doubt that more than one of Hendriks or Gibson will see the majors this year with no injuries) but 2014 as well (Diamond, Correia, Worley, Gibson, Hendriks) . So Meyer and Mays and Wimmers and the rest will see action in 2015 unless people are traded/ineffective.


Honestly? You are now going to complain about having too many arms in the rotation? I would be absolutely shocked if Saunders (if signed), Correia, Worley, diamond, and Pelfrey were all effective and healthy this season. Ryan should win GM of the year if he managed to put together an effective rotation on the cheap in one offseason.

#97 East Coast Twin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:08 AM

LaVelle reports there are "indications that the [Twins and Saunders] have made recent progress on a deal."

Twins remain interested in Saunders as offseason closes | StarTribune.com

#98 Nick Nelson

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

Now wins count towards a player's value? Lost count of the people blasted for saying wins matter on this board.


Whether a pitcher’s win total should have an impact and whether it does have an impact are two different matters. I do think it’s something that a front office will look at in assessing the year a guy had. But if you prefer, you can take a look at various other areas where Pavano was strong in 2010. Point is that his contract following that campaign was – if anything – below what you’d expect and not “huge” by any stretch of the imagination.

The way it is, with the likes of the Correia signing, Twins' prospects are not only blocked this season (I doubt that more than one of Hendriks or Gibson will see the majors this year with no injuries) but 2014 as well (Diamond, Correia, Worley, Gibson, Hendriks)


Well, we all know how common it is for a rotation to go through a year without any injuries.

If you’re planning out this rotation based on the expectation that five guys are going to hold down spots all year you’re doing it wrong. I don’t know how this would not be painfully obvious to anyone who’s followed the team over the past few seasons (or any season, really).

#99 ThePuck

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

If you’re planning out this rotation based on the expectation that five guys are going to hold down spots all year you’re doing it wrong. I don’t know how this would not be painfully obvious to anyone who’s followed the team over the past few seasons (or any season, really).


Or even the health history of the guys newly plugged into the rotation themselves...

#100 Alex

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

Whether a pitcher’s win total should have an impact and whether it does have an impact are two different matters. I do think it’s something that a front office will look at in assessing the year a guy had. But if you prefer, you can take a look at various other areas where Pavano was strong in 2010. Point is that his contract following that campaign was – if anything – below what you’d expect and not “huge” by any stretch of the imagination.


Great point that while some of us may not care as much about the pitcher win stat, some teams still pay for them, including the Twins.

Edited by Alex, 17 January 2013 - 12:36 PM.