Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Hypothetical rule change: remove DH when pitcher is removed

  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#61 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Moderator
  • 18,401 posts

Posted 02 November 2020 - 11:25 AM

 

The entire concept, I take it, is to get the Managers to leave the Starting Pitchers in the game longer. aka Snell, and I will add Maeda in this year's post season as well to the conversation. If your DH is Austin Meadows, I think that is who the Rays had DH'ing, who hit .205 for the season or Nelson Cruz who hit .303, which team is going to get penalized more for losing their DH in that scenario? Is the difference in the quality of the player that is DH'ing going to influence that decision? My guess is that Snell would have still gotten pulled but Maeda probably not. So, just using that example, would it be fair? It definitely implores a more difficult decision for Baldelli than it does for Cash. Are you then penalizing the Teams that have a good player at DH verses those that don't, forcing them to use their pitching staff differently or both?

Sure, I wouldn't expect a team to commit to a marginal DH. But I also like encouraging the use of bench players, platoons, etc. and this would help do that too. I'd add an extra position player roster spot if I did this rule.

 

And I'm in a gray area on the DH overall. I hate pitchers hitting, but I'm also not crazy about one-dimensional DHs either, so if this weakens their value, I'm not too upset. But, I'm hardly committed to the rule, it was more just a brainstorm.


#62 Cap'n Piranha

Cap'n Piranha

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,536 posts

Posted 02 November 2020 - 04:41 PM

If we want more balls in play, simply allow the batter to decline a 4 pitch walk, thereby forcing the pitcher to keep throwing.If he throws a 5th ball, it's an automatic ground-rule double.Guys in full counts, and weak hitters will take the walk at 4 balls, but better hitters, especially in 3-0 and 3-1 counts will stay in for another hack, especially if there are runners on base.Pitchers are going to have to start abandoning purpose pitches and breaking balls earlier in the count, leading to a lot more pitches in the zone, with a higher percentage of them being fastballs. 

 

This will also largely eliminate intentional walks, as the batter will decline it, and essentially get to hit with a 3-0 count and the reward of a double if the pitcher misses even once--thus, the best hitters will get to keep the bat in their hands far more often.


#63 rv78

rv78

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 292 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:50 AM

 

Sure, I wouldn't expect a team to commit to a marginal DH. But I also like encouraging the use of bench players, platoons, etc. and this would help do that too. I'd add an extra position player roster spot if I did this rule.

 

And I'm in a gray area on the DH overall. I hate pitchers hitting, but I'm also not crazy about one-dimensional DHs either, so if this weakens their value, I'm not too upset. But, I'm hardly committed to the rule, it was more just a brainstorm.

 

If you want bench players to play, platooning etc... you only have to look as far as Baldelli. He IMO over-uses his bench. Regulars that have earned their spot should play everyday. To give them added days off for rest is BS. I realize they work out before the games and travel can be a drain but how much physical activity do baseball players really do. Half the game, (3-4 hours for a full game) if they aren't up to bat they are sitting in the dugout. The other half of the game they are standing in the field waiting for the ball to be hit to them. The Pitcher and Catcher are the only ones who are engaged on every pitch when they are on the field and that's what? 2 hours max? Hardly a full days work for any of them. If these guys are superb athletes, playing a game 4 hours a day where you are sitting on the bench or standing in the field, most of the time, shouldn't be tiresome. Kirby Puckett was furious if Tom Kelly didn't have him in the lineup. 

 

As for the DH, I like it. I hate watching a pitcher hit or should I say strikeout. If you want to talk about 1 dimensional players, pitchers are it. Give me a Nelson Cruz, Jim Thome or other superb hitter past his prime anyday over a pitcher.


#64 insagt1

insagt1

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 441 posts

Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:44 AM

I like the DH, now that todays pitchers basically can't hit at all...with a new exceptions of course. I wouldn't mind if it became universal. I also would love to see a return to starting pitchers completing games again. the former might happen...the latter will never happen IMO. But games were fun to watch when the horses were out there dueling with each other.

I also think (probably very unpopular here) that analytics are ripping the soul out of the GAME. I don't need a stat for every little thing. When a guy hits a HR, I never turn to my buddy and say...wow, did you see that launch angle? Or, wonder what the exit velocity was?. Additionally I wish the shift would go away too.

I know this all sounds so old school....but for decades Iloved just going to the games, having a beer, a dog, buying a scorecard and enjoying the sport in all its glory.

 

Those days are gone, never to return. I'm glad I had them though. Baseball, like so many things has drastically changed...and we must move on or get run over.


#65 Trov

Trov

    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Member
  • 644 posts

Posted 04 November 2020 - 12:11 PM

I am personally against the rule.I get the concept and that it would get longer starts, but I do not like change rules to dictate to designed results of teams.I mean sure, we would get longer starts some games, but what if for Twins starter just laid and egg, would you want to pull him and lose your number 3 hitter before they even get a chance to hit? Would injury exempt from the removal?If so, I bet a lot of pitchers in early game struggles would have "blister issues" 

 

I just do not like rules trying to stop creative teams that learned to win with outside the box thinking.Why should game not reward smart teams, instead of punish them? 


#66 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Moderator
  • 18,401 posts

Posted 04 November 2020 - 03:06 PM

 

I just do not like rules trying to stop creative teams that learned to win with outside the box thinking.Why should game not reward smart teams, instead of punish them? 

There's not much creativity in the original DH rule itself, of course! But pitchers were so bad at hitting that many didn't care.

 

If the smart/creative path within the current rules is a less entertaining product to watch, we don't necessarily have to accept it going forward. Like pre-shot clock basketball. (Of course, I don't think this rule proposal is the best way forward either, but I thought it was interesting to consider. There should be easier ways to reduce K's and increase balls in play again.)


#67 Trov

Trov

    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Member
  • 644 posts

Posted 06 November 2020 - 11:56 AM

 

There's not much creativity in the original DH rule itself, of course! But pitchers were so bad at hitting that many didn't care.

 

If the smart/creative path within the current rules is a less entertaining product to watch, we don't necessarily have to accept it going forward. Like pre-shot clock basketball. (Of course, I don't think this rule proposal is the best way forward either, but I thought it was interesting to consider. There should be easier ways to reduce K's and increase balls in play again.)

I agree the point is to entertain, like putting in shot clock.However, I doubt this rule would do that, because the chance of having a top hitter be removed from game prior to even hitting, or making a struggling pitcher get blown up. If you want offense, you do not want to remove the DH from the game.  


#68 Dodecahedron

Dodecahedron

    Cedar Rapids Kernels

  • Member
  • 65 posts

Posted 06 November 2020 - 02:38 PM

 

What makes a new rule "too cute"? Was the 3-batter minimum "too cute"?

 

Yes.

  • Original_JB and Nine of twelve like this

#69 Dodecahedron

Dodecahedron

    Cedar Rapids Kernels

  • Member
  • 65 posts

Posted 06 November 2020 - 02:42 PM

 

And pitching changes at the start of the inning cost nothing in terms of game time.

 

It takes the same amount of time. A manager won't "make the change" until the start of the half inning in case the game situation changes, and every new pitcher is allowed the same number of warm up pitches on the mound.


#70 cardsfan

cardsfan

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Banned
  • 436 posts

Posted 12 November 2020 - 07:40 AM

I prefer no DH. Generating extra offense like why? Baseball as the game goes into the late innings keeps you glued to your chair in a close game. I don't mind pitchers hitting .163 when league average in the NL is .245.

I don't watch other teams blowouts in the late innings. I pay less attention when my team is way ahead and I'm not at the park like is the new Dexter on now?

The drama of walkoffs with a game that has no clock is the best thing about baseball.

Good hitting pitchers exist. I like which one of our starting pitchers will hit a HR this year.

I could live with the home team saying no DH today because our SP can hit better than yours or your DH is better than ours.