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Should The Twins Shop Miguel Sano?

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#21 joefish

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 11:33 AM

Shop til you drop. Yes.
He is a hole in the lineup.
Plug it.
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#22 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:58 PM

I would shop Sano, Kepler, and Rosario. Trade Sano or Kepler if we can get pitching, either a mid rotation starter or a good bullpen piece plus a starter prospect. Throw in a top 30 but not top 10 non-pitching prospect if necessary to improve the return. Trade Rosario for what you can get, probably B level prospects, or keep him to trade in July if the return would be better. Creates room for Kirilloff and Rooker, with Larnach and Celestino available for an injury or ineffectiveness. Blankenhorn replaces Gonzalez. Adrianza starts out as a utility/back up shortstop to be traded/released mid season if Lewis or Gordon is available and ready to go. If not, he stays the whole season. On the pitching side, pick up a veteran bullpen piece if we can’t trade for one, release Romo. I would love to see this cat Trevor Bauer as a starter but I think he’s out of our price range, so I think you trade one of the younger guys to get that starter or try to sign a veteran mid-rotation starter type.

#23 4twinsJA

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:37 PM

Why would anyone trade for Rosario. Twins will nontender him and someone can sign him for less then what Rosario would get in arbitration. Free agency will be interesting this year, the top players will probably still get top dollar but others might be signed at bargain rates. 

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#24 stringer bell

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 06:58 PM

I am not a huge Sanó fan, but I don’t think it is the optimum time to part with him. He’s coming off a bad, but healthy, partial season.

Even with health, the big guy is so slump prone. For too many interludes, you’re hoping Sanó will “run into one”, rather than having confidence that he’ll make solid contact. He doesn’t walk enough to be even a “three true outcomes” guy (.278 OBP).

I give the guy credit for his work and improvement at first base. I don’t think he’s a bad guy or has a questionable attitude, but he just hasn’t shown he can sustain the hot streaks to guarantee a spot in the middle of the order.
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#25 Twodogs

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 10:27 PM

I think you might get more for Kiriloff in a trade than Sano. I also think that the Twins need 2 more bats like Arraez in the lineup. 2 and 3 run shots would look a lot nicer than all of the solo shots. I think the Twins can win with this lineup, but they have to at some point change their approach especially with 2 strikes. Houston busted the shift against us numerous times to win that series because they were willing to change their approach when it warrented it. Not sure what they could get for Sano? But Sano would probably be better with a couple more hitters like Arraez running around on the basepaths.

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#26 rv78

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 07:45 AM

Question is... how many chances do you give him? At some point you have to determine he is what he is and, if it isn't what you want or need then it's time to move on. I think it's that time. If anything he regressed this year. Everyone is saying how a lot of players had a tough season due to the circumstances of covid. But there were a lot of players that didn't too. I'm tired of the excuses. When you're getting paid millions you need to perform at your best no matter what. If we have seen his best, we won't miss it if he's traded.


#27 lukeduke1980

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 08:30 AM

How teams address their payrolls this offseason is a huge unknown.The Twins could jettison Miguel's 10 or so million to help their budget; if a Milwaukee or someone was going to make a minimal move, adding Sano to hit behind Yelich would be splashy and not really that costly.


#28 dex8425

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 10:10 AM

 

I agree with Top Gunn's assessment and that he added Rosario to the mix. It's more about not being able to afford Rosario in the future so might as well work that out now. Sano and Rosario are very stubborn, undisciplined players. I get irritated every time they do something stupid, particularly plate discipline.

 

The signing of Donaldson has put a hamper on spending for quite a few years. he's beginning to look like damaged goods. I would trade him in a heartbeat but I doubt there would be any takers. 

Donaldson's contract definitely has negative value at this point. 


#29 dex8425

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 10:12 AM

 

I certainly trade Sano.He's the most likely guy that SHOULD be moved (Rosario, alas will probably get released, which is unfortunate that you wouldn't get anything for him but also needs to be done.We have young talent that we need to employ).

 

1.Sano has tremendous power potential.True he has holes in his swing but the power is undeniable.Several teams should be interested.Trading Sano would free up payroll to employ elsewhere on the roster.Putting Kiriloff at 1B gives the Twins better defense.It would put a more consistent at-bat-by-at-bat hitter in the Twins lineup.

 

2.How would we use the $20 million dollars saved by moving on from Sano and Rosario?We push all our chips into the middle of the table and we sign Trevor Bauer and KEEP Nelson Cruz for another year plus a mutual option.Cruz is the most professional hitter in our lineup.We don't become any kind of a better lineup without Cruz in the #3 or #4 spot next year.Bauer, Maeda, Berrios, Pineda (Hill, Dobnak, etc... as #5).Solid starting pitching with the core of a solid bullpen (Taylor Rodgers needs to bounce back, but he will).  

 

3.Moving on from Sano and Rosario allows the Twins to keep Cruz and go get Bauer.  

 

4.Let the Youth Movement begin !Jeffers, Garver, Kiriloff, Arraez, Rooker, Lewis, Blankenhorn, and a bunch of guys in our bullpen are VERY payroll friendly.So are Kepler, Polanco, Buxton and even Berrios and Maeda for that matter.Larnach is GOOD.He will be up pretty soon as well.The Twins have a bunch of young players that will be very payroll friendly for several years.It's time to leverage that so that Cruz, Donaldson and someone like Bauer can be fit into a payroll structure.

 

5.Getting something decent for Sano would be good.Waiting for someone to over-pay or the "perfect" deal would be a mistake.Getting anything for Rosario would be nice.But moving these two talented yet terribly inconsistent hitters out of our inconsistent lineup would be addition by subtraction.And what have the Twins got to lose ??What they have hasn't been getting the job done (18 straight post season losses is NOT a mirage).  

 

Possible Twins Lineup in 2021 without Sano and Rosario:

 

1.Arraez 2B

2.Donaldson3B

3.Cruz DH

4.KeplerRF

5.PolancoSS

6.Kiriloff1B

7.GarverC

8.Rooker LF

9.BuxtonCF

 

Starting Rotation:

1..Bauer$30-$35 million one year deal (3-years if he'll do it).

2. Maeda

3. Berrios

4. Pineda

5. R. Hill/R. Dobnak

 

That's a pretty good lineup.That's a GREAT rotation.If somehow Bauer gets away, go after James Paxton.

 

Change is coming to the Minnesota Twins.With Falvey and Levine it will not be the moribund "treading water" philosophy of the Terry Ryan regime.Falvey & Levine are probably determined to break that 18-game post-season winless streak.They know they aren't going to do it with the status quo.  

 Bauer is certainly going to require more than 30-35 mil if he takes a one year deal. There are probably ten teams that will offer him more than that. 43 mil for a one year deal seems about right. You want the Twins to offer that?


#30 nicksaviking

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 10:16 AM

 

True, but don't we also have Aaron Hicks syndrome? The Ortiz trade was awful, but don't forget the most recent fumble.

 

In the case of Hicks, I do understand the trade...the problem is the return. If the Twins are going to trade Sano or anyone else, they've got to get some great talent and start winning some of these trades. They may have won the Escobar and Pressley trades, but the jury's still out.

 

The Twins certainly did get taken for a ride in the Hicks deal, but in the long run they may have dodged a bullet. He looks to have peaked right when he needed a new contract. He's injury prone and only modestly more productive than an average OF. Everyone's talking about non-tendering Rosario, I can't imagine many folks around here would be thrilled to have 10M/year tied up in Hicks for the next half decade, especially with his defense starting to slip.

 

And to be clear, I'd never give the team a pass on the trade, they certainly bungled it. 

 

To tie this back into the topic at hand though, Sano could very well be productive next year and/or the year after, but the team holding his leash at that time may have an uncomfortable decision to make about a long term commitment. It might be prudent not to be that team making the decision.

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#31 darin617

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 04:01 PM

Is there an actual market for Sano? Any trade would not be favorable for the Twins. Even if NL keeps the DH teams shouldn't overpay for a 1 dimensional player.


#32 Crackedfungo

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 04:38 PM

I think this is just idiocy.Bauer is NOT going to come here without another debilitating contract like Donaldson.He is also a major HEAD CASE.Rosario and Sano have their faults, but to get rid of them both for a prospect or two (that has also missed a year of development) and expect that the add of Bauer will improve our regular season and playoff record over what it is (while starting every 5th day) is just daft.Also, why would you go all 'youth movement' at core everyday positions and WISH for the best, but not bring up a talented 5th started like Duran, and save the later years Bauer money to keep some of the now/future core, when Duran can only impact you negatively every 5th day (versus the rookie regulars almost every day).This, to me, is simple.You have 3 solid starters.You sign a lower priced 'prove it' pitcher like a Teheran, and allow Duran and Dobnak to compete for the last two rotation spots. 

 

You also have a very impressive line-up that struggles with injury (Donaldson), or playoff performance - take your pick from: Kepler, Polanco, Rosario, Sano, Buxton, Garver, etal.Which one or two of these players performed the past two years in the playoffs?I would argue that Kepler has performed the worst.Yet, he seems untouchable in all these discussions, and I am not convinced you wouldn't get more back for him (than Sano or Rosario - and I would not give up Rosario for nothing like a DFA, as he is an asset). I would still give the core one more year, or consider trading Kepler and using some of the $ for a tender to Rosario, keeping this asset until it pans out or we can unload it later when it has value (once the 2021 prospective impact is known or experienced). 

 

I would also lose Gonzalez, Adrianza, Cave,Avila, Bailey, Hill, Romo, Clippard, and May (he wants out), and go in-house to replace them.I would re-up the rest, and sit/trade from among Rosario, Sano, and Polanco the minute their performance is off in 2021 before trade deadline (with Lewis, Kiri, Rooker, and Larnach filling Adrianza/Gonzalez, Donaldson's, Cave, and Lamont's spots and ready to take over full-time the minute one is not meeting expectations). ......FIRE AWAY at my suggestions, but at least they are realistic.We also NEED to bring along a young starter or two next year that will be relied upon in 2022 (and I don't believe this will be from among Smeltzer, Thorpe, or even Dobnak).


#33 DocBauer

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 08:13 PM

To the actual headline of the OP, NO, I don't shop him. Like anyone else on the roster, you listen if someone calls. They might make you a deal you can't pass up. But I don't shop him.

At some point, we all have to get over the fact he wasn't an All Star 3B who looked like a possible HOF player at age 24-25. He won't be 28yo until after 2021 starts. My concern is what he bas been thus far, and what he could be the next 3-8yrs.

1] Despite some regrettable injury situations, he has been mostly 100% physically healthy since getting over the weird/fluke heel injury in early 2019. (Covid early 2020 doesn't count). By all accounts he has grown and re-dedicated himself to better conditioning and preparation.

2] Even with missed time, he has a career OPS of .829 thus far with an OPS+ OF 120. Ummm...thats pretty good folks. If you don't want to allow for 2020 being a weird season for him, or other Twins, or a number of quality and even high profile players from other teams, then I have no arguement for an outlier season than to tell you a bunch of All Star caliber players must just be bums all of a sudden.

He's stubborn and won't adapt? He was heaped with praise in 2019 for his new found conditioning and hard off season work, as well as working with and being attentive to Cruz. His OPS in 2019 was .923 and his OPS+ was 139! He was a major recruiter for Donaldson joining the team and even sent him a video imploring him to sign.

Defensively, he was OK at 1B with some issues. What were those issues? They were two-fold. He was out of place at times after a lifetime playing the left side of the diamond and trying to get to balls he shouldn't have. And he about demolished a couple teammates chasing foul balls he should have let someone else gather in. Those are part of adapting and learning. He caught about everything thrown his way and was good to great in his scoops. He will only get better the more he plays there.

Roster-wise, no doubt he could move to DH in a couple years to acomidate Kirilloff or Donaldson. Maybe 1yr depending on how the roster shakes out eventually. And that's not to say he can't stick at 1B for a few years plus, or fill in there for lineup variation and flexibility.

Trade him, shop him, absolutely NO. There is so much good ahead for him. But listen to offers that are really good? Of course!
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#34 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 02:23 PM

while I'm high on Rooker, I don't think his 19 MLB at bats outweighs his minor league career. If you're concerned about streaky hitters, replacing a guy like Sano with Rooker will likely not yield better results. I'd rather get a bit more data on Rooker before I rely on him...

 

As for Sano, I think we're going to have to do some moving around, like it or not. I'm not sure a lineup stacked with boom or bust types is going to get us much more than the elusive play off win, much less a world series. So for the right offer, I'd probably move him... it would have to be a good offer though. 

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#35 jrod23

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 05:46 PM

Take the jump.Trade him.Kirilloff WILL be a better option in the short term and long term than Sano.If you follow Kirilloff, you wouldn't be surprised by that statement.Also, SANO IS NOT AND WILL NOT BE DAVID ORTIZ.Look up the stats.The only thing they have in common is size and power.Every single intangible goes to Ortiz.Sano is not going to become the next Ortiz.

Shedding Rosario and Sano will open up space for players who are disciplined and will pan out if you trust what the FO has been doing.

I like what one mentioned about Larnach in LF and Rooker as the 4th option in the outfield/DH/1B.

Until Cruz shows significant drop or decline, we need to try to retain him.

 

Let's part ways with this enigma of Sano and move on.Trade him to the National League so he won't come back and mash against us.


#36 DocBauer

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 05:52 PM

while I'm high on Rooker, I don't think his 19 MLB at bats outweighs his minor league career. If you're concerned about streaky hitters, replacing a guy like Sano with Rooker will likely not yield better results. I'd rather get a bit more data on Rooker before I rely on him...
 
As for Sano, I think we're going to have to do some moving around, like it or not. I'm not sure a lineup stacked with boom or bust types is going to get us much more than the elusive play off win, much less a world series. So for the right offer, I'd probably move him... it would have to be a good offer though.


I agree it's a little hard to get overly excited about Rooker's 19AB. But I think he "looked ready" which is subjective as an arguement, of course, but an arguement that shouldn't be dismissed, IMO. Previously, he had struggled some when reaching a new level before adjusting. I was pleasantly surprised that he didn't seem to struggle in his SSS. It seems like he's been around for a while now simply because he's a little older...not ancient...and we've been talking about him for a while now. But he's only had 3 milb seasons plus the 2020 taxi squad. He has consistently produced after the previously mentioned adjustments. So maybe we shouldn't be surprised he looked the part in his short time with the Twins.

That Sano is a streaky hitter is no surprise. He may always be to some degree. I had hoped be would build on 2019 to even out the peaks and valleys...certainly the depth and length of the valleys...in 2020, but no. I'm still hopeful that experience and a normal season will show continued development and a more even plane of performance.

I am predicting no goodness or greatness for Rooker in 2021 or beyond, but I wonder if it's accurate to refer to him as a streaky player, despite the aforementioned "level up" adjustments he's had to make in the past. While it's true he is a power hitter prone to SO...313 times in 965 milb AB...he also hit .267 with a .357 OB to go along with his. 505 SLG and .861 OPS. Surprisingly, his quad slash line in the minors is ahead of Sano.

Now, week to week and month to month, I don't know if Rooker has or has not been prone to any large degree of peaks and valleys. And how good he could be is a complete unknown. And I'm not ready to bank on him for 2021 either as a replacement for Sano or anyone else. But watching his short ML stint and looking at his milb numbers again, I'm feeling encouraged.
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#37 ALessKosherScott

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:29 PM

Always listen. But don't be surprised if you're nonplused by the offers for a 1B/DH coming off a 104 OPS+ season.

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#38 Trov

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Posted Yesterday, 07:43 AM

I am all for shopping Sano, or any player at that matter.We have no players that cannot be had for the right price.I would not sell low on Sano if Twins feel the interest is low.I bet you can find 1 team out there that feel they can unlock his ability to make contact at even a 40% clip.For how hard he hits the ball he will do well if he can decrease his K rate.He has been around long enough that may not happen, but teams will always be willing to try.I would be fine moving forward with Sano as well.I do not even know who would want him or what they have the Twins would want either, but never hurts to look.