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Spring Training - Game 15 - vs Pirates

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#31 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:24 PM

Dumatrait gave up another HR, 2 run shot to Garrett Jones Hughes RBI double after double by Plouffe. Hughes bat warming up. Horrid pitching day.

#32 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:30 PM

Jim, I told you Terry Doyle should be offered back to the Chicago White Sox ASAP. Kyle Waldrop just moved up the charts. Yes!!!!!!!!

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 01:33 PM.


#33 edavis0308

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:33 PM

Jim,

I told you Doyle should be offered back to the Chicago White Sox ASAP. Kyle Waldrop just moved up the charts. Yes!!!!!!!!


I dont think too many people will disagree with you over the fact that Doyle was going to be an underwhelming move that was going to have little upside.

#34 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:33 PM

I ask this with all sincerity, but why do folks believe that Doyle is ready for the Majors. He has yet to pitch at the AAA level?


It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.

#35 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:40 PM

It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.


yet I keep reading how Benson/Dozier/Parmelee allneed to go to Rochester because they haven't played much or any AAA ball.

Which is my argument. Just because those 3 haven't played at Roch much or at all, they need to get more season. I don't agree with that.

Edited by Mr. Ed, 15 March 2012 - 01:43 PM.


#36 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

Dru solidifies his death grip on the #3 catcher with a RBI double.

#37 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

Capps a 1-2-3 7th vs Pirates subs.

#38 mikeee

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:57 PM

3 errors for the twinkies.

#39 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:10 PM

yet I keep reading how Benson/Dozier/Parmelee allneed to go to Rochester because they haven't played much or any AAA ball.


That's part of the reason... In each case, there is also a solid reason why getting AAA time would be good... the first and foremost is playing time. All three are good prospects who are young enough that you don't want them in a reserve role. The OF is currently set for the Twins. The middle infield appears set at this time. And, at least for now, the Twins have a 1B and a DH. So, none of the three would play, so they might as well go play in Rochester. Secondly, i think each of them has things that they can improve upon by playing more. With Benson, I think that by playing he can (hopefully) improve his contact rate. Parmelee had a solid 2011 in NB but not eye-popping, so he can continue to work to see if the power he showed in September and in March is legit after showing little power in his minor league career, including at New Britain. I think Dozier's might just be a case of two other guys getting the first chance. There are mixed opinions even among Twins brass about if he can be an everyday SS, 2B or if he's more of a utility player.

Like I wrote the other day, there are plenty of guys that the Twins have called up from AA and kept up for whatever reason. Joe Mauer. Brad Radke. But it is an exception for sure for a guy to be called up from AA. It isn't because it's AA, but it's generally because there is something that needs to continue to be improved.

#40 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

So Doyle may be ready, but you're sure that those 3 are not. Ok, got it.

#41 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

Those three may be, but you have to agree that there are things they could work on. I think all three could play for the Twins today and be alright. With Doyle, I really don't know. Clearly there are things that he needs to work on. however, the circumstances are completely different due to the Rule 5 draft. They just are.

#42 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:24 PM

I just don't think Doyle is worth keeping with the arms coming. I think there are others that could pitch better in the bigs, and Doyle isn't worth it. yes, the others need to work on things. Doesn't mean i agree with it. I think Benson is least polished, but I take him over Revere. Parmelee I take over Morneau right now, because Morneau doesn't seem ready. And Dozier I would have taken over Carroll, but he's not a vet, so Gardy got his security blanket. But just because Doyle stood out against a bunch of kids in AZ Fall League doesn't mean he's ready for MLB either. And so far, the results back it up.

#43 ben

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

So Doyle may be ready, but you're sure that those 3 are not.

Ok, got it.


If Benson, Dozier, or Parmalee were rule 5 picks, they would have a much better chance of making the team. If Doyle had options, he would probably receive less consideration for making the team.

#44 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

The Twins,and some fans, must still be dreaming they'll get another Johan in Rule V

#45 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:39 PM

The Twins,and some fans, must still be dreaming they'll get another Johan in Rule V


I don't think anyone things like that. I think we'd all be happy with a solid middle or long reliever.

But just because Doyle stood out against a bunch of kids in AZ Fall League doesn't mean he's ready for MLB either.


I know that. hey, Cole DeVries pitched nearly as well in the AFL and the Twins didn't even invite him to camp despite a terrific 2011 regular season.

#46 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

I would not be happy with Terry Doyle as a middle/long reliever. I really think there are better candidates at Spring Training. Doyle would be occupying a roster spot of someone more deserving. I hope they don't compound this thinking Doyle can help by trading a prospect, like they did last year to keep Scott Diamond. Losing Bullock may or may not haunt them, but hard-throwers in this organization are like a rare gem.

#47 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:56 PM

Let’s be honest the Terry Doyle experiment has failed and needs to come to an end. He is not even Scott Diamond Jr!!!! I actually agree with Seth (big shocker) we have a lot of good arms to choose from for three open bullpen spots. I like Burton, Waldrop, and Gutierrez myself, but the Maloney kid has impressed the hell out of me. I keep waiting for him to get lit up and it does not happen. You can’t keep a bad player on your roster just because he was selected in the Rule 5 draft and trust me Ryan knows this. The Twins might have one more guy to pick from if they sign Michael Wuertz. Yes……… Please……. Yes……………

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 02:59 PM.


#48 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

I wrote today that I liked what Brendan Wise brings to the table in terms of a different delivery than normal, and a ton of movement on his pitches, ground ball tendencies, etc. As many have said, I think he compares to Kyle Waldrop in terms of movement, ground balls, etc. With both of them not getting a ton of strikeouts, you're going to have days like Wise had today... 1 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 0 K. I also wrote that all those bullpen guys who had allowed 0 or 1 ER to that point in the spring could have a game where they give up 3 ER in an inning and insteda of a shiny 0.00 ERA, suddenly it's 5+... Wise's is at 6.75 and yet he's pitched pretty well in 3 out of 4 outings. But without seeing, I dont' know if Wise was hit hard, or if those ground balls just found holes.

#49 Jim H

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:56 PM

I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.

#50 Thrylos

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:06 PM

I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.


Santana's ERA was 6.49 actually. But there is a huge difference. He was 21 on his first season with the Twins. Doyle turned 26 last November. I still think that it is too early to give up on him. Give him a couple weeks and he might turn it around. If he does not, back to the White Sox...
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#51 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:16 PM

I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.



Seth, nobody thinks about another Santana? :cool:

#52 Shane Wahl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:31 PM

It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.


I do think that Doyle has potential with a year at AAA. Maybe instead of releasing players like Ciurcina and Pedro Guerra, they could have been kept around just long enough to offer up in exchange for Doyle? I still don't understand the story with those two. Maybe there were off the field issues. If so, that's fine to get rid of them, but maybe not until you see about the Rule 5 draft (actually I don't remember if the R5 draft was before or after the releasing??). Good lord, pass those off-the-field issues onto the White Sox!

#53 Shane Wahl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

I wrote today that I liked what Brendan Wise brings to the table in terms of a different delivery than normal, and a ton of movement on his pitches, ground ball tendencies, etc. As many have said, I think he compares to Kyle Waldrop in terms of movement, ground balls, etc. With both of them not getting a ton of strikeouts, you're going to have days like Wise had today... 1 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 0 K.

I also wrote that all those bullpen guys who had allowed 0 or 1 ER to that point in the spring could have a game where they give up 3 ER in an inning and insteda of a shiny 0.00 ERA, suddenly it's 5+... Wise's is at 6.75 and yet he's pitched pretty well in 3 out of 4 outings.

But without seeing, I dont' know if Wise was hit hard, or if those ground balls just found holes.


And let's not forget that he comes with a big endorsement from Hendriks, who even if he isn't the most talented pitcher, knows pitching.

#54 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:03 PM

LaVelle on this game:


http://www.startribu.../142855975.html

Edited by Mr. Ed, 15 March 2012 - 05:34 PM.


#55 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

Thrylos has a point; on the other hand if Doyle needs to know (like a starter) well in advance when he'll be pitching then he's not a great candidate for the bullpen duties that a Rule-5 draftee often draws.

#56 Thrylos

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

LaVelle on this game:
(copy and paste of LEN3's writeup)


Darn! methinks that cutting and pasting whole writeups like this will get our hosts in trouble... and we don't want that. It's ok to have some quotes from it but the Strib people (who have recently made their site a pay site) will have a major cow if they see that...
Really.
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#57 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:33 PM

Thrylos has a point; on the other hand if Doyle needs to know (like a starter) well in advance when he'll be pitching then he's not a great candidate for the bullpen duties that a Rule-5 draftee often draws.


So what is Doyle's excuse for the other 'bad' outing?

Nerves?

Maybe he's just not very good.

#58 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:03 PM

Darn! methinks that cutting and pasting whole writeups like this will get our hosts in trouble... and we don't want that. It's ok to have some quotes from it but the Strib people (who have recently made their site a pay site) will have a major cow if they see that...
Really.



Edited.

I will crawl back in the hole i came out of now, so Twins Daily doesn't get punished.

#59 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:38 PM

Mr. Ed, I guess that was my point, to dispute whatever weak excuse Doyle seemed to think he had.

#60 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:12 PM

Seth, nobody thinks about another Santana? :cool:


I stand corrected. What people forget is that the rules of eligibility for the Rule 5 draft changed a few years ago and teams get an extra year to evaluate whether or not to put players on the 40 man roster. It's much more difficult for people to slip through the cracks.