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Article: Twins' Bullpen Banter

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:06 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...-Bullpen-Banter

#2 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:02 AM

The Twins made their first cuts Thursday morning, sending pitcher Scott Diamond and eight others to their minor-league camp. Diamond was with the Twins for a part of last season and was seen as having a chance to make the team.Others sent down were right-handed pitchers Deolis Guerra and Lester Oliveros, left-handed pitcher Tyler Robertson and outfielders Darin Mastroianni and Oswaldo Arcia.
Nonrostered pitcher Aaron Thompson, infielder Steve Pearce and catcher Danny Rams were also sent to the minor-league complex

#3 Gernzy

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

At this point the last 3 bullpen spots should be Burton, Maloney, and Manship or Waldrop. Still a few weeks of spring left to decide.

#4 Mr. Ed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

If Baker's elbow is troublesome, and he winds up on the DL, do the Twins move Swarzak to the rotation? Duensing? Would open another 'pen spot.

#5 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

Seth,

Your banter about Alex Burnett being talented has really grown old. I could careless the guy is 24 years old and did spend much time in Rochester, he clearly can't make the adjustments at the M.L. level. Your not Gardy, so please stop protecting this guy. He has been given more chances than Waldrop, Slama, Delaney, and many others ever will. Here is all you need to know.

2010. He had a 5.29 ERA in 47.2 IP. (7.0 K/9 ratio).

2011. He had a 5.51 ERA in 50.2 IP. (5.9 K/9 ratio).

2012. He has a 16.87 ERA in 2.2 IP. (By guys who will be unemployed in two weeks).

The guy has not improved at all, in fact he has got much worse. I would straight up release him and give his 40-man roster spot to someone who deserves it. I thought you were all about giving opportunities to guys who deserve it. This guy had his chance and his 15 minutes of fame are up.

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 10:28 AM.


#6 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:17 AM

One of my favorite things is when Jack says guys should be immediately released because generally speaking that means that the player will play quite well in the near future.

#7 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:25 AM

Give me another example besides Jesse Crain????? "Generally speaking" I get tired of every prospect in the system being thought of as the next Willie Mays. Some guys just are not very good, but according to you they are all superstars. Why not just talk about how they are in fantastic shape and brush their teeth well. Sorry to burst your bubble but 85-90% of all prospects never make it at the M.L. level. However, you still believe Cole Nelson, Alex Burnett, and Lester Oliveros are great prospects. I actually disagree with you. You are entitled to you rosey outlook on everything but more people agree with me, even if they are not willing to say it. In fact your site would not be successful if everyone did.

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 10:37 AM.


#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:51 AM

I don't recall ever saying the Cole Nelson was even a good prospect, and you know I don't think that I've ever called a reliever a great prospect. I had Burnett ranked as high as #10-12 when he was a starting pitcher in the minor leagues. I had him (and have Oliveros) in the 30s of my rankings.

Secondly, I'm not sure where my rosey analysis on Burnett was from this article. Here's what I wrote:

Alex Burnett – Gardy and Rick Anderson really believe in Burnett, and for good reason. There is no questioning his stuff. Simply, he was not given time to develop in Rochester, and I think it would be great for Burnett (and Lester Oliveros who has given up one run on four hits in three innings while striking out four and walking none) to spend a couple of months improving themselves in Rochester. Burnett has thrown 2.2 innings this spring and given up five runs on eight hits and two walks. It isn’t as if it is just one bad outing; he has struggled each time he has taken the mound.


I don't think it's unfair or rosey to stay that he has 'good stuff' while at the same time acknowledging that, to this point, it hasn't proven successful yet. And yes, my style would be to say that he should go to Rochester and work this season on some things since he's still just 24, and your style is to just completely give up on him despite having the option year, the roster spot and time.

#9 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:56 AM

Seth,

You said on your show several different times "I really believe Alex Burnett could be the future closer for the Twins." This has been your analysis for the last two years. Pretty optimistic for a guy who has been absolutely throttled by other teams and is not improving.

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 10:59 AM.


#10 Thrylos

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:22 AM

Seth,

You said on your show several different times "I really believe Alex Burnett could be the future closer for the Twins." This has been your analysis for the last two years. Pretty optimistic for a guy who has been absolutely throttled by other teams and is not improving.


Burnett was 23 last season. For comparison's sake here are some numbers of some other Twins' pitcher (in the majors) his first 2 seasons:

age 22 season: 4-10, 5.21 ERA, 1.508 WHIP, 6.0 K/9, 2.2 K/BB
age 23 season: 7-15, 5.49 ERA, 1.590 WHIP, 5.4 K/9, 1.4 K/BB

Should the Twins had released him?

Any idea who that pitcher is?
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#11 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:59 AM

Seth,

You said on your show several different times "I really believe Alex Burnett could be the future closer for the Twins." This has been your analysis for the last two years. Pretty optimistic for a guy who has been absolutely throttled by other teams and is not improving.


I did say that during his rookie year and probably last offseason. I haven't said that, I'm pretty sure, for a year. I still believe he can be a quality relief pitcher in time.

#12 Shane Wahl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

FJ sucks me in again . . . While it is understandable to be frustrated with Burnett, it is true that he was up for too long in 2010 and really had no business being up in 2011 instead of working on stuff (literally) at Rochester. Once up in the Show, it is not always easy to continue to work on stuff. Rochester is the place to do and develop. The "free Chuck James" movement really was aka "the help Alex Burnett" develop movement. It was fairly uncharacteristic of the Twins to push Burnett like they did.

#13 Shane Wahl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

Burnett was 23 last season. For comparison's sake here are some numbers of some other Twins' pitcher (in the majors) his first 2 seasons:

age 22 season: 4-10, 5.21 ERA, 1.508 WHIP, 6.0 K/9, 2.2 K/BB
age 23 season: 7-15, 5.49 ERA, 1.590 WHIP, 5.4 K/9, 1.4 K/BB

Should the Twins had released him?

Any idea who that pitcher is?


You really have me stumped with this one. Some hint is needed . . .

#14 Thrylos

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:22 PM

You really have me stumped with this one. Some hint is needed . . .


Sweet music
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#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

Sweet music


Frankie. Nice.

#16 ben

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

Give me another example besides Jesse Crain?????



If I recall correctly, heading into 2010 spring training several twins were better suited to a career pumping gas at the Super America - Liriano among them.

#17 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:05 PM

Player Comps are always cool because you can always find guys who have struggled and turned it around. But you also have to be careful in assuming that a player will suddenly meet that comp. it's like with Burnett. yes, two years ago, or even last offseason, I was thinking he had the potential to be a big-time closer. Right now, it certainly doesn't look good for that happening, but there are plenty of players throughout history that have struggled as much or more than Burnett at a young age who have turned into very productive big league pitchers. Does it mean he will for sure? Of course not, but I think it's silly to think that a guy who throws that hard and has that much movement coudln't turn it around.

#18 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:10 PM

Ben, What did Liriano do again last year? Oh that's right!!!

#19 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

Thrylos98,

So you are comparing Frank Viola to Alex Burnett? What's next, your trading in a Chevrolet Corvette for a Ford Pinto. Come on the comparison is a joke and you know it. Viola had talent with a great change up, slider, fastball, and curve. Burnett has limited talent, unless you count a straight fastball right down the middle of the plate. Everyone can jump on me that is fine. However, I was right about Terry Doyle as he was shelled again today, Liriano (1 good season), and most likely about Burnett. Maybe somebody can find some stats and compare Doyle to Dwight Gooden.

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 01:24 PM.


#20 Thrylos

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:33 PM

Thrylos98,

So you are comparing Frank Viola to Alex Burnett? What's next, your trading in a Chevrolet Corvette for a Ford Pinto. Come on the comparison is a joke and you know it. .


No comparison.

I just noted the fact that Viola, like Burnett, also underperformed at the same age. I am using Viola's turn-around as an example why one should not give up on young players before they reach their prime. That's all.
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#21 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:52 PM

Thrylos98,

I will agree with you and Seth that maybe "Released" was a bit over the top even for me. He should go to New Britain or Rochester and allowed to develop slowly. However, he might be wounded beyond reapir at this point.

Edited by Fanatic Jack, 15 March 2012 - 01:56 PM.


#22 minn55441

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:53 PM

Thrylos98,

Everyone can jump on me that is fine. However, I was right about Terry Doyle as he was shelled again today, Liriano (1 good season), and most likely about Burnett. Maybe somebody can find some stats and compare Doyle to Dwight Gooden.


FJ
You were not right about Doyle. Yes, he was shelled today. Again. But we don't release him yet. I had hopped that he would have a good spring training, but it doesn't look good right now. Let games play out and we will see where were are at 2 or 3 weeks from now. Should we cut Carroll because he is 1-20 to start the spring? No, give him 2 to 3 weeks and see where we are at. Maybe Dozier is the better option, maybe not. The point is that there is no need to jump to rath conclusions about players. Don't make decisions about players until you have to. The time to evaluate Doyle is coming soon, but it isn't here yet.

#23 ben

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:18 PM

Ben,

What did Liriano do again last year? Oh that's right!!!


Last year was 2011, not 2010.

#24 Fanatic Jack

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

Ben, He has had 1 good season (2010) since coming back from T.J. surgery in 2006. Nothing to get too excited about and at this point can you really say I was wong.