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Mackey: Twins Likely Done Making Significant Moves this Year

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#21 johnnydakota

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

Think the payroll was chopped because their was no way to build a club without spending major bucks or trading the farm system. 1 or 2 year deals for pitchers with the expectation of young pitchers coming up is the better way to go.
I don't like this way, and do wish the Twins had been more honest about the direction. The only thing I can now see is the Willingham and Morneau have very good seasons and are traded at the deadline for more upper level prospects.

Once again i am confused, please explain to me how trading Justin at the end of july will garner us better prospects when he would only be a renta player for 2 months?...maybe im missing something?

#22 ThePuck

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

From the Makey initerview:

"I think we've fortified the pitching staff," Ryan said. "You look at this team and I think we scored enough runs. We have enough defense, even with the loss of Revere and Span. So we're getting somewhat close to the point where we're ready to go and sort this out a little bit (at spring training)."

Perhaps it was a typo? Did Makey mean to type "forfeited the pitching staff."

Also, in what possible way does Ryan think the Twins have enough defense. This is likely a bottom five defense which doesn't go well with the intentionally constructed extreme pitch-to-contact staff.


This

#23 johnnydakota

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

My favorite part is , we have to start being relistict,....huh ?most fans knew before you did Mr. Ryan?
We have known from the day Bill was sent to inspect toilets in South America, that payroll slashing was the major objection for this franchise

#24 Rosterman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

The issues:

TICKETS

Season ticket sales. How many will they actually have. Those are the tickets that are cheap on StubHub or outside Target Field. Again, cheap can be misleading. The expensive seats are never that cheap...yet.

But you will always be able to buy a seat for around $20 direct from the team next year.

MORNEAU

If he fits into some long-term plans, the Twins need to make a 2-3 year offer to him now at what they feel he is worth. If not, you trade him before the season starts, so another team can make him an offer or a "qualifying offer" if they feel he is worth it. It has showed this year that the new "free agency" thing isn't working...for the players...or the teams that don't want to lose a first round, or even their second round draft pick.

Will he be worth more at mid-season. Depends on who else is out of competition. But the decision ahs to be made now and we have to live with it.

Willingham would be a more likely candidate to trade mid-season and get some real value, i.e. prospects, back.

2013

If we are truly rebuilding for 2014, then 2013 will have to see a whole hsot of upcoming players on the field. Not just Hicks and Gibson, but also pushing Rosario over Dozier, Sano over Plouffe, giving Buxton a real early look, making May and Meyer part of the rotation by mid-season. Otherwise, if you wait until September or 2014 to put these guys on the field, then THAT is the rebuilding year. Anyway you look at it, 2015 would be the earliest we would see in-house excitement from the future Minnesota Twins.

FREE AGENCY

The Twins aren't players. They were lucky last year with decent contracts with Willingham and Doumit. Marquis and Zumaya were busts. Carroll was okay. But nothing cost them an arm or a leg, except perhaps Pavano and Capps.

We are all up-in-arms about money not being spent, moreso wondering where it is going. Target Field was supposed to make us competitive, not bottom feeders, in the free agency market. The Twins would be able to afford a gamble or two on a contract that may not play out. Looking at reality, the Twins could throw away $25 million, right now, today, and if it pays off...be competitive. If it doesn't, they suck, but still have stayed within their 50% payroll guidelines.

MEANINGFUL GAMES IN SEPTEMBER

That is what we all want. We want a competitive team on the field that plays well and gives us a chance of winning, at least, in the division.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to sit amidst a bunch of empty seats and stretch out and watch AAAA ball, if the seats are cheap, and I bring my own grub.

Something isn't right. Something isn't be said truthfully. Something big has to happen to the Twins.

Joel Thingvall
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#25 TwinsFanInPhilly

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

My favorite part is , we have to start being relistict,....huh ?most fans knew before you did Mr. Ryan?
We have known from the day Bill was sent to inspect toilets in South America, that payroll slashing was the major objection for this franchise


Major objection??? Thank you Mrs Malaprop.

#26 ThePuck

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

Major objection??? Thank you Mrs Malaprop.


You understood what he meant right? Do you take issue with what he was saying, or do you just want to nitpick how he says it to avoid the actual point of the post?

This isn't English 101, people.

Edited by ThePuck, 09 January 2013 - 12:32 PM.


#27 edavis0308

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

You understood what he meant right? Do you take issue with what he was saying, or do you just want to nitpick how he says it to avoid the actual point of the post?

This isn't English 101, people.


Seems to happen around here a lot.

#28 Highabove

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

[FONT=Arial] " This can be a hard thing to do when the other clubs are searching for the same thing but (no one is going to try harder than the Twins.")

Direct quote to the Season Ticket Holders

Is this statement true?




[/FONT]

#29 Oxtung

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

The issues:


MORNEAU

If he fits into some long-term plans, the Twins need to make a 2-3 year offer to him now at what they feel he is worth. If not, you trade him before the season starts, so another team can make him an offer or a "qualifying offer" if they feel he is worth it. It has showed this year that the new "free agency" thing isn't working...for the players...or the teams that don't want to lose a first round, or even their second round draft pick.

Will he be worth more at mid-season. Depends on who else is out of competition. But the decision ahs to be made now and we have to live with it.

Willingham would be a more likely candidate to trade mid-season and get some real value, i.e. prospects, back.

Morneau is worth almost nothing right now. No team is going to take on $14m for a 1st baseman that has significant health questions and only slugged .750ish last year. The only way the Twins get anything significant in return is if they eat a large portion of his contract. If the Twins aren't willing to pay a pitcher more than $10m then there is little chance they will pick up a significant amount of Morneau's salary.

2013

If we are truly rebuilding for 2014, then 2013 will have to see a whole hsot of upcoming players on the field. Not just Hicks and Gibson, but also pushing Rosario over Dozier, Sano over Plouffe, giving Buxton a real early look, making May and Meyer part of the rotation by mid-season. Otherwise, if you wait until September or 2014 to put these guys on the field, then THAT is the rebuilding year. Anyway you look at it, 2015 would be the earliest we would see in-house excitement from the future Minnesota Twins.


Rosario, Sano and Buxton; why stop there? I think we should pencil the top HS pitcher into the Twins rotation come June!

#30 ThePuck

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

[FONT=Arial] " This can be a hard thing to do when the other clubs are searching for the same thing but (no one is going to try harder than the Twins.")

Direct quote to the Season Ticket Holders

Is this statement true?




[/FONT]


Doesn't seem like it's true at all, the results so far certainly don't seem to jive with the statement, but we can't know for 100% certain if it's the truth or an outright lie. I guess it depends on what he defines as 'trying harder.' To him, does that mean make an offer, but not above what HE thinks they are worth? If that's what he means, he could be telling the truth in the strictest sense. Question is, is that how others would define trying harder than any other team?

#31 jokin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:07 PM

Sigh... I'm not terribly surprised to read this but it's still disappointing. If the Twins are in rebuilding mode, just blow it up and give it the proper treatment. Put Morneau and Willingham on the block and be done with it.

I'm not against shying away from the FA market and slashing payroll with the clear message "we're building for 2015" but riding the fence is unacceptable. You either try to win or you blow up the roster. There's no point in trying to play both sides. It rarely (almost never) works.


This is all I've been saying, and asking admission to, since 2011. Now, 2 years have gone to waste in getting on with it, already.

I'm having a hard time thinking of an example when playing both sides has ever worked in recent times.

#32 jokin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

"Unlike in the previous two offseasons, there will be no over-promising and under-delivering by the Minnesota Twins in 2013."

All I could think of was the "pretty darn good pitcher" quote when I read this.

In truth, I don't disagree with Ryan's quote in the original post, but that statement doesn't really jibe with his actions. He hasn't made the necessary improvements to put this club in position to be playing meaningful games in September, IMO.


So that "In Terry we Trust" thing was just satire, then, right?

#33 jokin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

Unless the point is to sell as many season ticket packages as you can...the bottom line...money.


EDIT: "...the bottom line...we will continue to obfuscate....(to get your) money"

#34 jokin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

Twins Likely Done Making Significant Moves this Year


I think that's just about exactly what I posted when they signed Correia.

What a sad situation. Not much hope, not much of a plan, and a primary goal of chopping payroll.


...And the see-no-evil, $30Million minions crying out: "Damn the AF Heretic!", lie strangely silent in their midst....

#35 70charger

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

...And the see-no-evil, $30Million minions crying out: "Damn the AF Heretic!", lie strangely silent in their midst....


Strange epithet for people who accept the fact that it ain't over till it's over.

But you go on belittling those you won't listen to. I'm used to it.

#36 Kwak

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

"Twins done making significant moves". It seems so to me. I think that both Willingham and Morneau were shopped but that the response was tepid. Many have posted about Morneau's issues--I'm confident that the other teams think along the same lines. Trade Willingham? I believe the Twins faithful place a much higher value on Willinghame than the rest of MLB. Please consider that he signed a three year deal for ~$21MM total. I conclude the rest of baseball didn't think he was worth more than that and his 2012 season is likely viewed as his "career year" so why pay for lesser (perceived) production. I also think that Ryan was expecting a big return--the rest of MLB likely think they have the leverage on the Twins and that Ryan's asking price will come way down if they wait. Then, there is also the promise that the Twins would provide a competitive team (OK it's about 99.9% certain this team won't be competitive in 2013) but trading Willingham and Morneau for "prospects" won't improve the 2013 team! I agree with the posters who claim that the Twins would need to pay most of Morneau's salary to obtain a desireable return--but the Twins aren't the type of team to pay for someone to play against them (for Rochester Red Wings--Yes, but not a ML team). The gamble on a "resurgence" in order to make a deal--hey I bought a lottery ticket so why not the Twins? Personally, I think the Twins should have made a winning offer for Baker and either Jackson or Sanchez even if said offer was "way above market". But, that isn't "The Twins Way". So, it's off to the dumpster and the leper colony to find "arms"--and hope they are attached to a pitcher.

#37 Rosterman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:08 PM

Again, Morneau you pay and lose him after a season, of get something for him. The other option is to keep him a Twin, at what price. Is he a viable component on the 2015 and 2016 Twins team as a DH who can also play 1B, or is that pure Mauer territory. And, again, at what price. If he is not in the plans for the team come 2014 and beyond, move him for someone, something. Let us see Parmelee at first instead of right field. If he plays elsewhere in 2013 and enters free agency, you can hope that his value has changed one way of the other and makes him a possibility for a return, if sides care.

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#38 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

Strange epithet for people who accept the fact that it ain't over till it's over.


What, in your opinion, could still happen for it not to be "over?"

Stephen Drew reneges and signs to play SS? A couple front line pitchers decide to demand a trade to the Twins?

The "big FA acquisition(s)" was Kevin F'ing Correia.

There's no cavalry coming over the hill. It's over.

#39 twinsnorth49

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

I'll remain hopeful something might still happen, I'm not naive enough to think that it will but I'm ok with waiting before I open my big mouth. I'm also ok with Terry Ryan still running this ship, I'm not one who is overly offended by being "lied" to by Ryan regarding the 2013 season, the chances that his words were doublespeak were always rather high so I never put 100% faith in them to begin with.

I'm disappointed a bit that 2013 won't be better than I may have hoped, but from the day Span was traded and then Revere, it became pretty clear the team was looking beyond this year. I was always willing to give Ryan more than a year or two to right the ship and I think the moves he has made so far will help to accomplish that in the near future. I also believe more moves along those line will be made during this season, largely involving Morneau and Willingham. Anything else that may happen is largely dependent on the play of players such as Plouffe, Parmelee, Benson and Dozier.

Was I ''lied" to? Meh, mislead maybe but whatever, it's pro sports, it's the nature of the business and part of the balancing act required for guys like Ryan and St. Peter. I think this team will be pretty good in a couple of years and I'll look forward to that, the mess was never really going to be cleaned up quickly, despite what was said, but I still think much has already been done to make the team better, I can live with that.

#40 StormJH1

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

This is all I've been saying, and asking admission to, since 2011. Now, 2 years have gone to waste in getting on with it, already.

I'm having a hard time thinking of an example when playing both sides has ever worked in recent times.


Yeah, true, but the problem with that logic is that you're calling for a team coming off 90 wins with a $112 million payroll in 201, in the 2nd year of a new ballpark, to suddenly come to the realization that they are in a rebuild, when they had to go through the actual EXPERIENCE of being terrible that would prove that out. 2011 was mostly explained away by Mauer, Morneau, and Span's injuries. I thought 2012 looked bleak, but there was at least an argument (before Pavano and Baker) went down that they hang around with the likes of Chicago and Cleveland with that lineup and the addition of Willingham and Doumit.

Now, there is no question it's a rebuild, but what do you DO with that? Mauer will clearly be in the waning stages of his production by the time the kids are all ready to play in the bigs, yet he's both the biggest contract (by far) and the one guy you probably can't dump in a "blow it up" scenario.

I think it's a been a good offseason for acquiring young talent, and I still like their 2012 draft strategy. But it had BETTER work because year after year, it's not just Detroit that does more than us in free agency - you could argue that all four of the other AL Central teams have done more through FA to improve themselves than the Twins. That's not sustainable unless you start hitting BIG time with homegrown talent.