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Baer: Time to Appreciate Mauer

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

ESPN's SweetSpot's Bill Baer wrote a nice article about Joe Mauer. Their comments are funny too.

Time to appreciate Joe Mauer - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

#2 jharaldson

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Fun stat that I don't see that often, since Joe Mauer came in to the league in 2004 he is ranked 15th in the league in RBI % (% of runners on driven in).

RBI %

[TABLE="width: 427"]
[TR]
[TD]Rank[/TD]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Runners On[/TD]
[TD]Runs Batted In[/TD]
[TD]Home Runs[/TD]
[TD]RBI Pct.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Aramis Ramirez[/TD]
[TD]3384[/TD]
[TD]872[/TD]
[TD]251[/TD]
[TD]18.35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Ryan Braun[/TD]
[TD]2412[/TD]
[TD]643[/TD]
[TD]202[/TD]
[TD]18.28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Miguel Cabrera[/TD]
[TD]4133[/TD]
[TD]1061[/TD]
[TD]309[/TD]
[TD]18.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Ryan Howard[/TD]
[TD]3415[/TD]
[TD]920[/TD]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD]18.16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Vladimir Guerrero[/TD]
[TD]3213[/TD]
[TD]794[/TD]
[TD]215[/TD]
[TD]18.02[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Victor Martinez[/TD]
[TD]3239[/TD]
[TD]720[/TD]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]17.88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Magglio Ordonez[/TD]
[TD]2570[/TD]
[TD]570[/TD]
[TD]116[/TD]
[TD]17.67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Garret Anderson[/TD]
[TD]2264[/TD]
[TD]493[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[TD]17.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Albert Pujols[/TD]
[TD]3931[/TD]
[TD]1053[/TD]
[TD]361[/TD]
[TD]17.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]David Ortiz[/TD]
[TD]3836[/TD]
[TD]987[/TD]
[TD]312[/TD]
[TD]17.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Bobby Abreu[/TD]
[TD]3577[/TD]
[TD]780[/TD]
[TD]151[/TD]
[TD]17.58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Manny Ramirez[/TD]
[TD]2747[/TD]
[TD]691[/TD]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]17.58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Michael Young[/TD]
[TD]3776[/TD]
[TD]801[/TD]
[TD]143[/TD]
[TD]17.43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Matt Holliday[/TD]
[TD]3692[/TD]
[TD]872[/TD]
[TD]229[/TD]
[TD]17.42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Joe Mauer[/TD]
[TD]2839[/TD]
[TD]587[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[TD]17.37[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

Ugh. Those comments.

#4 TCBurgerGuy

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

Thanks for the link, Seth. The article is informative and the comments are entertaining to say the least.

#5 Winston Smith

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

Joe Mauer has never played in a playoff game win. Strange isn't it?

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#6 ThePuck

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

it's unfortunate you need to have a facebook account now to comment there

#7 Boom Boom

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

184 million dollar players are, by definition, not underappreciated.

#8 nicksaviking

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

184 million dollar players are, by definition, not underappreciated.


That probably depends on who's doing the appreciating. I doubt you're writing his checks.

Just because your boss tells you that you are a hard worker don't expect when you come home your wife will tell you the same thing.

Edited by nicksaviking, 18 December 2012 - 01:17 PM.


#9 Boom Boom

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

That probably depends on who's doing the appreciating. I doubt you're writing his checks.

Just because your boss tells you that you are a hard worker don't expect when you come home your wife will tell you the same thing.


I don't know what we can do to appreciate Mauer more. Throw rose petals at his feet? Gold, frankencense, and myrrh?

I think Joe's doing OK and I don't think he sweats the haters too much.

I don't think we need to start the Joe Mauer Foundation for Underappreciated Millionaires.

Edited by Boom Boom, 18 December 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#10 gunnarthor

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

I don't know what we can do to appreciate Mauer more. Throw rose petals at his feet? Gold, frankencense, and myrrh?

I think Joe's doing OK and I don't think he sweats the haters too much.

I don't think we need to start the Joe Mauer Foundation for Underappreciated Millionaires.


Yeah, that seems about right. It's hard to say he's under appreciated considering that the last two years have made it clear he's not the best catcher in baseball anymore (although he could become the best one again). He's a great player and probably going to the HOF. A few bounce back seasons and he's one of the top five catchers of all time.

#11 iastfan112

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Thank you ESPN comments, I've learned that WAR is not calculated, merely conjured up out of thin air.

#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

Thank you ESPN comments, I've learned that WAR is not calculated, merely conjured up out of thin air.


WAR is based on math and sorcery, not necessarily in that order.

#13 edavis0308

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

WAR is based on math and sorcery, not necessarily in that order.


I think its the integral of the OWL.

#14 righty8383

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

it's unfortunate you need to have a facebook account now to comment there


Its a shame. Keith Law used to answer to comments in his blogs. He has said that is now a thing of past unless they go back to the old comment format.

#15 righty8383

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

The comments are not nearly as fun as the comments you get in the star tribune articles:p

#16 Teflon

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

Thanks, Seth. I also enjoyed this article on Mauer published towards the end of last season in ESPN the magazine.

#17 drunksam

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

WAR is based on math and sorcery, not necessarily in that order.



Let me put on my robe and wizard hat...
Better looking with the lights out.

#18 FrodaddyG

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

Let me put on my robe and wizard hat...

Sam's profile doesn't seem right without a Fuhrer rank.

#19 SpantheMan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

Reading the comments I learned that Mauer would only be a good hitter if he hit 7th. LOL

#20 mnfireman

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

Time to appreciate Joe Mauer - AGREED. Read the posts on these boards during the season....Mauer can't hit for power, Mauer won't switch positions, Mauer grounds into too many DP's, Joe Mauer does not deserve $23M, trade Joe Mauer now....negative, negative, negative. Joe Mauer WILL be a HOFer. Lets appreciate him for what he does, not what he doen't do. He is pretty good!

#21 glunn

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

I agree that Mauer should be appreciated as a great player. I think that he would look a lot better if the Twins were contending.

#22 Top Gun

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:29 AM

Mauer is one of the greatest Twins ever. Morneau and Willingham are nice to watch too. Even Plouffe put on a nice little show with Ben. The Twins are not all bad, but even Calvin was better than this front office. Gardy just doesn't have much to work with. Winning make me so happy, but so many bad days is sad.

#23 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

Thank you ESPN comments, I've learned that WAR is not calculated, merely conjured up out of thin air.


WAR...what is it good for!

Can we please stop the "Mauer Bashing" already? What does he have to do to get out of the doghouse for crying out loud?

Wait.. never mind. A-rod was getting bashed when he was putting up HOF numbers too.

Edited by Fire Dan Gladden, 19 December 2012 - 07:59 AM.


#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:53 AM

Let me put on my robe and wizard hat...


Ooh, say more sexy things. I like it.

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

Its a shame. Keith Law used to answer to comments in his blogs. He has said that is now a thing of past unless they go back to the old comment format.


I don't blame them for the switch. Facebook's commenting system is slick. I've used it in the past and it works really well.

#26 mike wants wins

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:28 AM

There are several things to consider

1 there are degrees of appreciation. Some almost worship him like an idol, and so not understand why others so not.

2 there is a distinction between feelings for Mauer, and feelings for how the twins choose to constrict the rest of their payroll as a result of his contract.

#27 StormJH1

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

I read the article when it came out. While it lost me by starting out with a big "WAR" argument, I think even a lot of the "haters" would concede some of the positive merits about Mauer's game. He is a rare talent, and he does have an elite level ability to make contact and get on base, things that reflect well in SABR stats.

But the article felt a bit "off" to me when it came to the "bigger picture" items. Looking forward, I think the writer is missing out on a fact that most Minnesota fans pretty much already know - that Mauer's time as an above-average, full-or-near-full-time catcher has already come to an end. The Twins have realized (and rightly so) that forcing Mauer to squat 130 games behind the plate is not a particularly good idea, even if he could do it. And in the 72 games he did start at catcher this year, let's face it, his defense was not very good. That's going to tend to negate the whole "awesome for a catcher" angle.

But even if the point of the article was just to look back on what Mauer has already done and appreciate, I think most fans here would struggle with that as well. The gigantic contract didn't even START until the 2011 year, and we know what happened there. The Mauer proponents would have you believe that he's an integral part of this team's success (and perhaps even a "quiet leader by example"), yet we've seen this team be absolutely terrible in back to back seasons - one where Mauer was a total non-factor, and one where Mauer was about as good as anyone (apparently) expects Mauer to be. My "expectations" for the Mauer contract were not limited just to Mauer, but were related to hopes that Mauer would be a part of some great postseason moments, be that as a table-setter or a mammoth power machine in the middle of the order. Look at significant postseason moments Buster Posey has been involved in multiple times in a much younger career. The overall failure of the Twins is NOT the sole responsibility of Mauer, but neither can you say that the new contract has done anything to make the team appreciably better. To the contrary, it's hard to imagine them being much worse.

Edited by StormJH1, 19 December 2012 - 11:23 AM.


#28 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:04 PM

Can we just drop the Mauer contract? There was no way that Mauer wasn't going to get signed. The Pohlads would have been lynched after that stadium deal if Mauer ended up somewhere else... and Mauer, to his credit, was going to take the Twins for every penny they wanted to offer.

I find it amusing that many people in this forum who are down on Mauer are the same ones complaining about the Twins being cheap.

#29 CDog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

I read the article when it came out. While it lost me by starting out with a big "WAR" argument, I think even a lot of the "haters" would concede some of the positive merits about Mauer's game. He is a rare talent, and he does have an elite level ability to make contact and get on base, things that reflect well in SABR stats.

But the article felt a bit "off" to me when it came to the "bigger picture" items. Looking forward, I think the writer is missing out on a fact that most Minnesota fans pretty much already know - that Mauer's time as an above-average, full-or-near-full-time catcher has already come to an end. The Twins have realized (and rightly so) that forcing Mauer to squat 130 games behind the plate is not a particularly good idea, even if he could do it. And in the 72 games he did start at catcher this year, let's face it, his defense was not very good. That's going to tend to negate the whole "awesome for a catcher" angle.

But even if the point of the article was just to look back on what Mauer has already done and appreciate, I think most fans here would struggle with that as well. The gigantic contract didn't even START until the 2011 year, and we know what happened there. The Mauer proponents would have you believe that he's an integral part of this team's success (and perhaps even a "quiet leader by example"), yet we've seen this team be absolutely terrible in back to back seasons - one where Mauer was a total non-factor, and one where Mauer was about as good as anyone (apparently) expects Mauer to be. My "expectations" for the Mauer contract were not limited just to Mauer, but were related to hopes that Mauer would be a part of some great postseason moments, be that as a table-setter or a mammoth power machine in the middle of the order. Look at significant postseason moments Buster Posey has been involved in multiple times in a much younger career. The overall failure of the Twins is NOT the sole responsibility of Mauer, but neither can you say that the new contract has done anything to make the team appreciably better. To the contrary, it's hard to imagine them being much worse.


Is it really news that an elite athlete isn't going to be elite forever? What a lame criticism....

Then of course we get to the "he's played on some bad teams, therefore his talent isn't worthy of appreciation" and the lame criticism about not being elite forever just fades away under the weight of that ridiculous, preposterous argument. I would show the list of players we should "struggle" to appreciate because they've played on some (or many) bad teams, but it's comically long. I'll leave alone that he's played on far more very good teams. Oh, wait...

#30 glunn

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:10 AM

I would like to see Mauer take shot at playing third base, at least part time. Maybe he could play plus defense there, while preserving his knees.