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Brett Myers

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#21 DaveW

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

I'm not going to get to upset about Myers, the dude is a wife beater (only above rapist in my book) and just isn't a very good pitcher. Of course I would rather the Twins not give Correia 2 yeasr/10 million, but we really need to let that go at some point.

I still want them to bring in Marcum though.

#22 DaveW

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

Really Seth? I expected more out of you than that. So the guy made a terrible mistake in 2006. Does that mean he goes out every night and assaults women?

So much for giving anyone a second chance ever?


Something like 88% of men who beat their spouse and get caught for it have been repeat offenders (even if they aren't "caught" again)

Getting a DUI is a mistake.
Getting in a bar fight is a mistake.
Doing drugs is a mistake.
Beating your spouse is not a mistake and is downright despicable.

I don't want a wife beating #5 on this roster. That is for sure.

#23 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

There is a difference between paying someone what they are worth and way overpaying. The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. They put out the money for Pavano and Baker. They put out the money for Mauer and Morneau. They extend Doumit when he showed his value to this club. Please don't even begin to think that I share your view.


I doubt we will find out Myers was a huge overpay. It also kind of dampens your theory that free agents won't sign with bottom feeders regardless of money.

Edited by nicksaviking, 01 January 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#24 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

Terry Ryan is so old school & in over his head with the new wave of baseball/baseball execs
His expertise in scouting/minor league player evaluation would be put to better use as an assistant GM type of role


A>friggin>men

#25 old nurse

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

I doubt we will find out Myers was a huge overpay. It also kind of dampens your theory that free agents won't sign with bottom feeders regardless of money.

Top free agents. not low ranked ones like Myers. At least bother to remember all what I say if you are going to the trouble to be irritated by it.

#26 jokin

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

There is a difference between paying someone what they are worth and way overpaying. The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. They put out the money for Pavano and Baker. They put out the money for Mauer and Morneau. They extend Doumit when he showed his value to this club. Please don't even begin to think that I share your view.



With respect to your closing comment, believe me, I can sleep better at night, given your assurances.

Based on the last 2 seasons, your first highlighted assertion is laughable. Blackburn, Nishioka, Capps, Carroll and Correia ring any bells? They didn't put out the money and time-frame for Baker this year and they ran off Hardy for nothing in return because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth last year. The ill-considered contract paid- and time frame given-- to Mauer has crippled their flexibility to address other areas of weakness.

#27 old nurse

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

[/B]

With respect to your closing comment, believe me, I can sleep better at night, given your assurances.

Based on the last 2 seasons, your first highlighted assertion is laughable. Blackburn, Nishioka, Capps, Carroll and Correia ring any bells? They didn't put out the money and time-frame for Baker this year and they ran off Hardy for nothing in return because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth last year. The ill-considered contract paid- and time frame given-- to Mauer has crippled their flexibility to address other areas of weakness.

Carroll played to the tune of a War over 2. Not bad for a utility player. Hardy being traded over money is revisionist history at best. If Mauer's contract crippled them, how is it you whine so much about them not spending money they have. If you look at the time when Blackburm was signed to the deal on fangraphs, they had his WAR at 2.5 and 3 for the previous 2 years. That is better than Marcum the last two years. Everybody here thinks signing Marcum would be a good thing. When his sinker quit sinking, the Twins never fixed it. Sometime last year Parker Hagerman showed it in his videos that he was pitching differently. On Baker the Twins wanted the second year, Baker wanted a shot at a huge payday if he has a good year he would hope to get Sanchez kind of money. His numbers will look better in the NL.
Capps spent most of last year injured. Which Capps do you get, the one with the K/9 of 7 or the one of 4.7 ? Was his shoulder wore out and they didn't figure it out in 2011? Correia. Fairly consistent in w/l, IP. 5 mill is not outrageous. Less than Feldman got, the same as Villenueva,

Edited by old nurse, 02 January 2013 - 12:10 AM.


#28 beckmt

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

Terry Ryan is amassing many parts in pitching to see which ones of them work out. Most are signed for short term(all Starters), so as not to block the hopefully young pitchers that will be here in 1 - 3 years. If the young pitchers do not work out, he can then be assessed on that score, not for trying to balance a fair competitive ballclub now and a very good ballclub of young players in 2 - 3 years. Time to spend money of free agents will be in 2 - 3 years after the holes become apparent. Pitching still wins games and is going to be very expensive all the time.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:20 AM

I was really meh on the Carroll signing when it happened but after last season, you can't say it was a bad signing. Carroll is playing better than the money he's getting.

#30 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

Yeah the Carroll signing was just fine IMO. The Willingham and Doumit ones were great.

Correia could be a stinker, or he could be a #5 for us. If it's the latter then the contract really isn't that terrible. Hell even if he ends up in the pen it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just 5 million.

#31 jay

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

Correia could be a stinker, or he could be a #5 for us. If it's the latter then the contract really isn't that terrible. Hell even if he ends up in the pen it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just 5 million.


If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.

#32 70charger

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.


I'm not sure how calling him a possible stinker with a ceiling of a #5 is rosy. "Not the worst thing in the world" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

There's been a lot of bluster about Correia and how he's the worst thing since unsliced bread, but it really isn't the worst thing in the world. Two years is one too many, but it's still only two. And at an average of $5m/year, we're not breaking the bank, especially if you compare it to some of the other middle of the road pitchers who are getting $8-12 million per year on two to four year contracts.

I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but let's not pretend that signing Correia has broken the seventh seal or anything.

#33 Top Gun

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that Brett Myers' new one-year deal with the Indians is worth $7 million.

This presumably includes the buyout for the 2014 club option. It's a nice chunk of change for Myers, who posted a 3.31 ERA and 41/15 K/BB ratio over 65 1/3 innings of relief last season with the Astros and White Sox. The Indians plan to use him as a starter.
Related: Indians

Source: Jon Heyman on Twitt

#34 edavis0308

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Yeah the Carroll signing was just fine IMO. The Willingham and Doumit ones were great.

Correia could be a stinker, or he could be a #5 for us. If it's the latter then the contract really isn't that terrible. Hell even if he ends up in the pen it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just 5 million.


Or you could be more realistic and suggest that him and his $10M salary could be joining Blackburn in the Rochester rotation.

#35 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.


How am I painting it a bit rosy there? I said he has a shot to be a real "stinker" but at least if he doesn't work out as a starter he has some value in the pen ($5 mil worth? no) but it's not a Blackburn or Nishioka situation at least at that point. I still think there is a decent enough shot that he sticks as a #5, if he can give you 4.50 ERA and 180 IP that is probably worth 5 million a year.

#36 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that Brett Myers' new one-year deal with the Indians is worth $7 million.

This presumably includes the buyout for the 2014 club option. It's a nice chunk of change for Myers, who posted a 3.31 ERA and 41/15 K/BB ratio over 65 1/3 innings of relief last season with the Astros and White Sox. The Indians plan to use him as a starter.
Related: Indians

Source: Jon Heyman on Twitt

Yeah Myers at 1/7 isn't to much more appealing then what we got Correia for. If you held a gun to my head I would say Myers, but its not worth getting to upset about.

GO. GET. MARCUM!

#37 BBWriterMan

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

I would have liked to have seen the Twins sign Myers, particularly over Correia or even Pelfrey, but I do wonder if they even made a competitive offer. The Indians are no more of a contender than the Twins are, so that could not have been a deciding factor for him.

#38 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

I still think there is a decent enough shot that he sticks as a #5, if he can give you 4.50 ERA and 180 IP that is probably worth 5 million a year.


180 innings of 4.50 ERA ball is absolutely worth $5m... Probably more like $7m, actually. And if Correia can put up those numbers (far from a given), it's a decent signing for a team that is completely pitching-starved.

My main problem with the signing is the thinking that led to this decision, not the actual money.

#39 jokin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Carroll played to the tune of a War over 2
. Not bad for a utility player. Hardy being traded over money is revisionist history at best. If Mauer's contract crippled them, how is it you whine so much about them not spending money they have. If you look at the time when Blackburm was signed to the deal on fangraphs, they had his WAR at 2.5 and 3 for the previous 2 years. That is better than Marcum the last two years. Everybody here thinks signing Marcum would be a good thing. When his sinker quit sinking, the Twins never fixed it. Sometime last year Parker Hagerman showed it in his videos that he was pitching differently. On Baker the Twins wanted the second year, Baker wanted a shot at a huge payday if he has a good year he would hope to get Sanchez kind of money. His numbers will look better in the NL.
Capps spent most of last year injured. Which Capps do you get, the one with the K/9 of 7 or the one of 4.7 ? Was his shoulder wore out and they didn't figure it out in 2011? Correia. Fairly consistent in w/l, IP. 5 mill is not outrageous. Less than Feldman got, the same as Villenueva,


No Nishy mention?

Caroll's 2012 tune was significantly below his mediocre career numbers, at age 38, now he makes $3.75M at age 39 with a potential player option the Twins would be stuck with at age 40. This signing makes no sense for a rebuilding team, money and experience much better spent on playing prospects at the utility position.

The Hardy move most certainly isn't revisionist. The reasons for moving Hardy were thoroughly debated at the time. The FO and Gardy were concerned about his injury and Pohlad was too cheap to sign him for what he was worth and the Twins ended up with egg on its face on both ends of the deals for Hardy.

Mauer's situation has also been thoroughly debated and many, including me, showed how the Twins could have done a 2011 reboot for around the same payroll as 2010 and made another run at the Central Division. That the Twins chose not to do so, and only acquire cheap replacements for two departing hitters and none of the departing/injured pitchers begs the question posed.

Blackburn's signing was a headscratcher at the time and widely second-guessed at the time. Quoting WAR is merely lazy post-rationalization for what was obviously a poor decision to tie up money for a pitcher, who at best, was destined for mediocrity, but now has proven to be much worse than that. Blackie's sinker didn't sink at least half the time when he was supposedly going well, it was apparent to even casual fans that he lacked command on his limited skill-set.

Capps? Seriously, your "defense" of the signing is most telling. Even uninjured, he came in as an overpayed mediocrity and the Twins extended the foolish misguided waste of money and the misery of his signing because they wouldn't admit they made a mistake in the trade for Ramos.

Correia? Signing a guy who couldn't even hold the #5 spot in the Pirates rotation as a Twins SP placeholder for the next 2 years is the epitome of overpaying for mediocrity and does nothing to build for the days when the Twins return to competitiveness. So it is outrageous in achieving the goal that Ryan set for himself and the Twins in 2013.

Try again, this was too easy.

#40 DaveW

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

Nishioka/hardy were Bill Smith Moves...