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Brett Myers

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#31 jay

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

Correia could be a stinker, or he could be a #5 for us. If it's the latter then the contract really isn't that terrible. Hell even if he ends up in the pen it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just 5 million.


If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.

#32 70charger

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.


I'm not sure how calling him a possible stinker with a ceiling of a #5 is rosy. "Not the worst thing in the world" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

There's been a lot of bluster about Correia and how he's the worst thing since unsliced bread, but it really isn't the worst thing in the world. Two years is one too many, but it's still only two. And at an average of $5m/year, we're not breaking the bank, especially if you compare it to some of the other middle of the road pitchers who are getting $8-12 million per year on two to four year contracts.

I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but let's not pretend that signing Correia has broken the seventh seal or anything.

#33 Top Gun

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that Brett Myers' new one-year deal with the Indians is worth $7 million.

This presumably includes the buyout for the 2014 club option. It's a nice chunk of change for Myers, who posted a 3.31 ERA and 41/15 K/BB ratio over 65 1/3 innings of relief last season with the Astros and White Sox. The Indians plan to use him as a starter.
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Source: Jon Heyman on Twitt

#34 edavis0308

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Yeah the Carroll signing was just fine IMO. The Willingham and Doumit ones were great.

Correia could be a stinker, or he could be a #5 for us. If it's the latter then the contract really isn't that terrible. Hell even if he ends up in the pen it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just 5 million.


Or you could be more realistic and suggest that him and his $10M salary could be joining Blackburn in the Rochester rotation.

#35 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

If they wanted to spend that money on the pen, they could have gotten an elite reliever with a solid track record of consistency for that money. For some reason, I don't picture Correia fulfilling that if he ends up in the pen. Myers has at least shown he can be an above-average reliever if starting doesn't work out. I'm willing to give Correia a chance, but you're painting it a bit rosy here.


How am I painting it a bit rosy there? I said he has a shot to be a real "stinker" but at least if he doesn't work out as a starter he has some value in the pen ($5 mil worth? no) but it's not a Blackburn or Nishioka situation at least at that point. I still think there is a decent enough shot that he sticks as a #5, if he can give you 4.50 ERA and 180 IP that is probably worth 5 million a year.

#36 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that Brett Myers' new one-year deal with the Indians is worth $7 million.

This presumably includes the buyout for the 2014 club option. It's a nice chunk of change for Myers, who posted a 3.31 ERA and 41/15 K/BB ratio over 65 1/3 innings of relief last season with the Astros and White Sox. The Indians plan to use him as a starter.
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Source: Jon Heyman on Twitt

Yeah Myers at 1/7 isn't to much more appealing then what we got Correia for. If you held a gun to my head I would say Myers, but its not worth getting to upset about.

GO. GET. MARCUM!

#37 BBWriterMan

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

I would have liked to have seen the Twins sign Myers, particularly over Correia or even Pelfrey, but I do wonder if they even made a competitive offer. The Indians are no more of a contender than the Twins are, so that could not have been a deciding factor for him.

#38 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

I still think there is a decent enough shot that he sticks as a #5, if he can give you 4.50 ERA and 180 IP that is probably worth 5 million a year.


180 innings of 4.50 ERA ball is absolutely worth $5m... Probably more like $7m, actually. And if Correia can put up those numbers (far from a given), it's a decent signing for a team that is completely pitching-starved.

My main problem with the signing is the thinking that led to this decision, not the actual money.

#39 jokin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Carroll played to the tune of a War over 2
. Not bad for a utility player. Hardy being traded over money is revisionist history at best. If Mauer's contract crippled them, how is it you whine so much about them not spending money they have. If you look at the time when Blackburm was signed to the deal on fangraphs, they had his WAR at 2.5 and 3 for the previous 2 years. That is better than Marcum the last two years. Everybody here thinks signing Marcum would be a good thing. When his sinker quit sinking, the Twins never fixed it. Sometime last year Parker Hagerman showed it in his videos that he was pitching differently. On Baker the Twins wanted the second year, Baker wanted a shot at a huge payday if he has a good year he would hope to get Sanchez kind of money. His numbers will look better in the NL.
Capps spent most of last year injured. Which Capps do you get, the one with the K/9 of 7 or the one of 4.7 ? Was his shoulder wore out and they didn't figure it out in 2011? Correia. Fairly consistent in w/l, IP. 5 mill is not outrageous. Less than Feldman got, the same as Villenueva,


No Nishy mention?

Caroll's 2012 tune was significantly below his mediocre career numbers, at age 38, now he makes $3.75M at age 39 with a potential player option the Twins would be stuck with at age 40. This signing makes no sense for a rebuilding team, money and experience much better spent on playing prospects at the utility position.

The Hardy move most certainly isn't revisionist. The reasons for moving Hardy were thoroughly debated at the time. The FO and Gardy were concerned about his injury and Pohlad was too cheap to sign him for what he was worth and the Twins ended up with egg on its face on both ends of the deals for Hardy.

Mauer's situation has also been thoroughly debated and many, including me, showed how the Twins could have done a 2011 reboot for around the same payroll as 2010 and made another run at the Central Division. That the Twins chose not to do so, and only acquire cheap replacements for two departing hitters and none of the departing/injured pitchers begs the question posed.

Blackburn's signing was a headscratcher at the time and widely second-guessed at the time. Quoting WAR is merely lazy post-rationalization for what was obviously a poor decision to tie up money for a pitcher, who at best, was destined for mediocrity, but now has proven to be much worse than that. Blackie's sinker didn't sink at least half the time when he was supposedly going well, it was apparent to even casual fans that he lacked command on his limited skill-set.

Capps? Seriously, your "defense" of the signing is most telling. Even uninjured, he came in as an overpayed mediocrity and the Twins extended the foolish misguided waste of money and the misery of his signing because they wouldn't admit they made a mistake in the trade for Ramos.

Correia? Signing a guy who couldn't even hold the #5 spot in the Pirates rotation as a Twins SP placeholder for the next 2 years is the epitome of overpaying for mediocrity and does nothing to build for the days when the Twins return to competitiveness. So it is outrageous in achieving the goal that Ryan set for himself and the Twins in 2013.

Try again, this was too easy.

#40 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

Nishioka/hardy were Bill Smith Moves...

#41 jokin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

I'm not sure how calling him a possible stinker with a ceiling of a #5 is rosy. "Not the worst thing in the world" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

There's been a lot of bluster about Correia and how he's the worst thing since unsliced bread, but it really isn't the worst thing in the world. Two years is one too many, but it's still only two. And at an average of $5m/year, we're not breaking the bank, especially if you compare it to some of the other middle of the road pitchers who are getting $8-12 million per year on two to four year contracts.

I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but let's not pretend that signing Correia has broken the seventh seal or anything.


It's quite simply money poorly allocated. The Twins acquired a guy who put up numbers that were less than DeVries and similar to Deduno, who probably would have been signable for less $$$ come February. You could beat the bushes and sign another dozen arms in search of another Diamond in the rough for less money, or go the other way and actually open the pocketbook with the obviously available payroll dollars and sign marketable talent that might acquire you some young prospects down the road.

#42 jokin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

Nishioka/hardy were Bill Smith Moves...


The topic is the Pohlad's, and their willingness to overspend on mediocrity, or not.

#43 ThePuck

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

The topic is the Pohlad's, and their willingness to overspend on mediocrity, or not.


They overspent on mediocrity when they paid Correia what they did

#44 jokin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

They overspent on mediocrity when they paid Correia what they did


...Tell that to old nurse...according to his theory. Jimmy Poh is infallible....and got an outright steal on mediocrity... in landing Correia for 2 years.

Edited by jokin, 02 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.


#45 Rosterman

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

Anyone notice that Rene Tosoni signed with the Brewers as a minor league free agent?
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#46 old nurse

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

...Tell that to old nurse...according to his theory. Jimmy Poh is infallible....and got an outright steal on mediocrity... in landing Correia for 2 years.


The theory was top free agents. Please find where I said any of the Pohlads were infallible? Please find a spot where I have said that the Correia signing was a great one. Please find a spot where I even said Correia was a great pitcher. By what similar players signed for Correia got a fair price.

#47 ThePuck

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

The Hardy move most certainly isn't revisionist. The reasons for moving Hardy were thoroughly debated at the time. The FO and Gardy were concerned about his injury and Pohlad was too cheap to sign him for what he was worth and the Twins ended up with egg on its face on both ends of the deals for Hardy.


Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.

Edited by ThePuck, 03 January 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#48 Rosterman

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.


Wait, I thought Toshi was replacing Hardy, with Alexi staying at second (although the discussion was always about whether Alexi was a better SS or 2B). And then Toshi breaks his leg out of the chute.

There was also the fear that hardy was going to ask for $9-10 million in arbitration instead of resigning for what he did with Baltimore, which would've been in the Twins realm. Especially when you factor in the monies paid for Toshi to Japan as well as 3-year (okay, 2-year) contract.

Going to be interesting to see how the Orioles infield of Casilla/Hardy/Valencia plays out in 2013.
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#49 h2oface

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

If it is as you say that Ryan's expertise is scouting then perhaps the problem is getting Pohlad to approve the contracts? If Ryan knows a good player when he sees one but can't sign him then the problem becomes the money. The money is Pohlad's.


Does this mean you think Terry Ryan is lying when he repeatedly tells you and the rest of the world that money in not an issue here? Would Terry Ryan lie to the media and fans like that? Terry???

#50 old nurse

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Does this mean you think Terry Ryan is lying when he repeatedly tells you and the rest of the world that money in not an issue here? Would Terry Ryan lie to the media and fans like that? Terry???

When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.

Edited by old nurse, 03 January 2013 - 01:39 PM.


#51 ThePuck

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

Wait, I thought Toshi was replacing Hardy, with Alexi staying at second (although the discussion was always about whether Alexi was a better SS or 2B). And then Toshi breaks his leg out of the chute.

There was also the fear that hardy was going to ask for $9-10 million in arbitration instead of resigning for what he did with Baltimore, which would've been in the Twins realm. Especially when you factor in the monies paid for Toshi to Japan as well as 3-year (okay, 2-year) contract.

Going to be interesting to see how the Orioles infield of Casilla/Hardy/Valencia plays out in 2013.


nope....even when they signed Nishi, they questioned his arm and pegged him to play 2B...then there was an uproar of deciding it so quickly, especially after our shortstop was shipped off, so they backpedaled and said they'd determine who played where in ST (our famous ST battles), and one week into ST, magically, Casilla was the starting shortstop...kind of what we knew was gonna happen all along. When Nishi broke his leg, he was playing 2B and Casilla was at shortstop

Edited by ThePuck, 03 January 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#52 edavis0308

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.


I think you are underestimating how much more of a negative effect a 65 win team can have on attendence over a 75-80 win team.

#53 jokin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.


Casilla over Hardy???, that alone should mean that Gardy and Smith should have have been shipped out on the same boat after 2011. I'm not sure that Gardy necessarily had Smith wrapped around his little finger, but he sure had his other fingerprints all over many curious personnel moves, both in acquisition and distribution during the Smith regime.

Smith compounded matters to the worst nth degree with one of the most one-sided trades, to the negative, in Twins history.

Edited by jokin, 03 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.


#54 jokin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:42 PM

The theory was top free agents. Please find where I said any of the Pohlads were infallible? Please find a spot where I have said that the Correia signing was a great one. Please find a spot where I even said Correia was a great pitcher. By what similar players signed for Correia got a fair price.


old nurse: "The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. "

Again, you can sign a dozen Dedeunos and DeVrieses and likely get a better return on your money than Correia.

#55 old nurse

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

old nurse: "The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. "

Again, you can sign a dozen Dedeunos and DeVrieses and likely get a better return on your money than Correia.

Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.

#56 johnnydakota

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.


You made the point already...The issue is not spending money,but how it was spent...Correia is just this years version of Jason Marquis...
and may i once again point out i said in early october once Ryan was done collecting garbage , we may wish we had Marquis back....

#57 johnnydakota

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.


didnt Harden get 52,000?

#58 old nurse

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

I think you are underestimating how much more of a negative effect a 65 win team can have on attendence over a 75-80 win team.

You were not around in the days of Bombo Rivera. Gene Mauch managing his ass off to get a team to .500 that nobody cared about. They did not come out to watch a .500 team after they were a losing team.

#59 old nurse

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

didnt Harden get 52,000?

Do you know the difference between a major league contract and a minor league contract? Are you completely unaware what Harden signed was a minor league contract?

#60 edavis0308

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.


You're really going to pick nits of 10 contracts versus 12? Good lord.