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Article: Twins Punting 2013? Not So Fast

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#81 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

However, Carroll does have a player option for 2014 where he will be 40 years old. If the Twins FO has decided to essentially build for 2014+ then IMO looking to move Jamey Carroll is a good option.


The player option kicks in if he accrues >400 PA in 2013. That makes it somewhat a team option - if he sucks, he'll be on the bench anyway, if he's marginal then his playing time goes down in Aug-Sept if he can't be traded at deadline. Don't know how much, if any, this changes the thinking.

#82 Oxtung

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

However, Carroll does have a player option for 2014 where he will be 40 years old. If the Twins FO has decided to essentially build for 2014+ then IMO looking to move Jamey Carroll is a good option.


The player option kicks in if he accrues >400 PA in 2013. That makes it somewhat a team option - if he sucks, he'll be on the bench anyway, if he's marginal then his playing time goes down in Aug-Sept if he can't be traded at deadline. Don't know how much, if any, this changes the thinking.


Brian Dozier
Pedro Florimon
Trevor Plouffe

Barring injury I just don't see how he doesn't get >400 PA's.

#83 Kwak

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

There is plenty of revenue to build for the future and still improve for 2013. Signing veteran pitchers to 1-yr contracts does not deter the Twins from building for the future--if anything it prevents the team from being hamstrung with washed-up players when money and roster spots are needed.

#84 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

[quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='ashburyjohn'][quote name='Oxtung']However, Carroll does have a player option for 2014 where he will be 40 years old. If the Twins FO has decided to essentially build for 2014+ then IMO looking to move Jamey Carroll is a good option.[/QUOTE]

The player option kicks in if he accrues >400 PA in 2013. That makes it somewhat a team option - if he sucks, he'll be on the bench anyway, if he's marginal then his playing time goes down in Aug-Sept if he can't be traded at deadline. Don't know how much, if any, this changes the thinking.[/QUOTE]

Brian Dozier
Pedro Florimon
Trevor Plouffe

Barring injury I just don't see how he doesn't get >400 PA's.[/QUOTE]

If he's healthy and contributing as the super-sub to an extent he reaches the threshold, then just pay the man his $2M in 2014. I'm just saying that even this minimal risk is pretty well covered - if he turns out to be totally not worth that much money at age 40, chances are his 2013 will take care of the question on its own.

#85 Nick Nelson

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

I'd still be shopping Carroll as there appears to be some type of market out there for that type of player, and it would cut some more salary.

If you trade Carroll, who's hitting leadoff? Mastroianni? Dozier? Yuck.

If someone knocks your socks off with an offer for Carroll, you take it, but that's not going to happen. He's 39. He's also the only player in the Twins' (apparently finalized) middle-infield mix that is likely to be anywhere close to average. That's worth a lot more to the Twins than $3.75 million.

#86 Jim H

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

One of the things that Ryan does well, generally, is evaluate talent. While I haven't seen enough, at the major league level, to have a lot of confidence in either Florimon or Dozier. At seems that perhaps Ryan has. Clearly, it doesn't seem to be a priority to add middle infield talent. It looks to me, like the top of the order will be pretty weak to start the season. I expect Hicks still needs minor league seasoning and even if Benson takes the center field job, that wouldn't address the top of the lineup.

Maybe Ryan thinks that Mastroianni and some combination of Dozier, Carroll, Plouffe, can fill the 1st 2 spots in the order. I actually hope so, or you are going to with about 4 darn weak bats in a row somewhere in the order.

#87 Rosterman

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

Who is batting 1 and 2. If they aren't good, Mauer doesn't get to hit...much. Who is playing cenetrfield. We gave up two leadoff hitters for a number nine spot in the batting order. ho is at second and short. How will they play together,

Yes, the Twins are two starters away from having a rotation. And, don't forget, for all the grips of 2012, I felt we had a chance with Pavano, Baker, Blackburn, Liriano and Marquis (plus Swarzak/Duensing/Hendriks as backup). 4 of the 5 should've started 30+ games and thrown 200 innings and all win more games than they would lose. You would've thunk. But we all know what happened.

Right now, today, I would predict a Twins line-up of Benson, Carroll, Mauer, Willingham, Morneau, Doumit, Parmell, Plouffe, Florimon. A bench of Butera, Dozier, Mastro and someone undetermined.

A starting rotation of Worley, Diamond, Gibson/Hendriks and two guys to be determined.

A bullpen of Perkins, Burton, Duensing, Burnett, Robertson, Pressly, Roienke.

There are defense problems in the outfield and infield. They is still the clutch-hitting that plagued the team alst year. Without Revere and Casilla, the Twins lost a lot of stolen bases and MAYBE toe ability to make something extra happen in the gameplan.

If Morneau is traded, the Twins need an established outfielder. If Mauer would go, the Twins need a better-than-average catcher. Hopefully, both could bring some major-league ready bodies to the game (Mauer for 4 Red Sox, Morneau for a pitcher and a 4th outfielder or starting infielder). I can live with Parmelee at first. I can almost live with Doumit and another person catching (not Butera). I can't live with 2-3 rookies in the outfield (sorry Hicks, Arcia and Benson -- I still see Hicks one solid year away, and Arcia coming up early and learning and flaying on the job).

The Hot Stove season still has two solid months yet. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope the Twins can do something with $25-30 million. They have my money, I want to se them spend it rather than look at it!

#88 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

My outlook on 2013 is greatly discouraged every time I hear how vital Jamey Carroll is so he can hit at the top of our lineup.

Just sayin.

#89 Kobs

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

Call me crazy, but I have a hard time considering a guy with a .343 OBP as "great" at getting on base.

I don't expect three OPSs over ..800 this season. Tough to win with that.

#90 Shane Wahl

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

Not sure if you guys are aware of a potential BIZARRE change in the NFL, but it involves having like 4th and 25 or 30 at their own 30 or something after a touchdown or field goal. It's completely strange to think about a team punting after having just scored. The Twins have just scored and cannot be said to be punting. They are bound to now get Dempster or Marcum, or they could even get both if they go up to 25 million to spend.

The 2013 team is already a bit better with Worley than Revere anyway.

#91 Musk21

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

Another SP option off the board. McCarthy to DBacks per Heyman.
If Twins can't re-sign Hunter, plans are to trade, sign a FA or go in-house to find a replacement.

#92 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

4th and 15...it is an intriguing idea, but they would need to not allow a first down by penalty....too easy to get interference or holding....for the Twins, I think we are just in the third inning of the off-season....

#93 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:49 PM

The 2013 team is already a bit better with Worley than Revere anyway.


And Span?

#94 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

Call me crazy, but I have a hard time considering a guy with a .343 OBP as "great" at getting on base.

I don't expect three OPSs over ..800 this season. Tough to win with that.


I agree with your first point, though I think there are 5 guys who have a shot of cracking the .800 mark. Mauer, Morneau, and Willingham should do it relatively easily. Parmalee and Plouffe are question marks, but it is hardly a given that these guys will stink...

#95 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

I agree with your first point, though I think there are 5 guys who have a shot of cracking the .800 mark. Mauer, Morneau, and Willingham should do it relatively easily. Parmalee and Plouffe are question marks, but it is hardly a given that these guys will stink...


Achieving .800+ is hardly the bar for stink or not-stink.

#96 jokin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

[quote name='birdwatcher'][quote name='jokin'][quote name='birdwatcher']The Twins have zero intention to "punt" for 2013.. Ryan made that very clear again today in more than one interview. He said they intend to shore up the rotation. He may misfire, but he isn't punting.

Now, it could certainly be that Ryan's expectation is to field a .500 ballclub at best for 2013. Isn't it unrealistic to expect a contending club for 2013 AND these great strides towards respectable future results? So, some of you might describe efforts to produce a .500 ballclub a "punt". I don't.[/QUOTE]

Not surprisingly, you're a nest-half-full guy. What else would you expect Ryan to say in this situation? Read his actions, they speak far more clearly than his words.[/QUOTE]

And of course, jokin, true to form, you are a half nest empty guy. Congratulations. Thanks for the advice, by the way, to rely on Ryan's actions and not his words. Perhaps you should take your own advice, jokin. Ryan's stiil going to take more action, but you judge him on his words and accuse him of various forms dishonesty, don't you? Isn't that hypocritical of you? Isn't that perhaps a form of dishonesty in and of itself?[/QUOTE]

I realize he's your cocktail party buddy and all, but unlike you, I have no emotional stake on this subject. His actions, like anyone in his political position means you always must look at what they do and "interpret" everything they say- at the top of the list this would include collaborating and conspiring with Carl and Bud to contract the team (and come away with his own fat payday on the deal).

#97 jokin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

I agree with your first point, though I think there are 5 guys who have a shot of cracking the .800 mark. Mauer, Morneau, and Willingham should do it relatively easily. Parmalee and Plouffe are question marks, but it is hardly a given that these guys will stink...


Achieving .800+ is hardly the bar for stink or not-stink.


Won't the big drop-off of OBP at the top of the order (ie Carroll/Dozier, playing 2B- batting 2nd in Gardy's feverish mind) tend to hurt the production numbers in the middle of the line-up somewhat?

#98 jokin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

The 2013 team is already a bit better with Worley than Revere anyway.


And Span?


That's just it, too many posters are pretending to themselves that this never happened.

#99 jokin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

Another SP option off the board. McCarthy to DBacks per Heyman.


Hey, they're still in on the Kevin Correia sweepstatkes, so there's that.

#100 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Another SP option off the board. McCarthy to DBacks per Heyman.


Hey, they're still in on the Kevin Correia sweepstatkes, so there's that.


Yayyyy.............................................:banghead: