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Article: Ben Revere Traded to Philly for RHP Vance Worley & Top Pitching Prospect

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#161 Guest_@_2244_*

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

[quote name='jokin'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='jokin']I'll stand by my prediction that if he has a strong season in a ballpark favorable to what he does best, the Phillies consider extension talks in the offseason.[/QUOTE]

And I'd still consider it a mistake but I think Revere will do better in the NL and that ballpark than he ever would in Target Field.[/QUOTE]

I fully agree, he's made for the NL and that park and a classy organization. I wish him the best. I just don't like the supposed Twins fans on a Twins blog who still want to get one more kick at a guy- who's done nothing wrong- as he's going out the door.[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Helv][FONT=Helv]I would submit that a player like Revere is best-suited for a cavern like Target Field. Offensively, big outfield gaps make more doubles and triples possible for speedsters who don't hit (m)any taters. Power hitters are going to get their homers, but a big ballpark weeds out the cheap homers from guys that are not typically considered deep threats, which minimizes his power limitations. Defensively, the only negative to Revere playing in a big outfield is his lack of arm strength becomes a bit more problematic. The trade-off is all that real estate gives him a big advantage in terms of defensive range. The guy gets to a lot of balls most OFers couldn't dream of. In addition to being a solid outfielder, he makes some of the best OF catches you'll ever see. Having a lot of territory track down fly balls / line drives caters to one of his biggest strengths.

I really don't see how playing in a bandbox like Philly benefits a player with Revere's tools whatsoever. A slap-hitting speedster devoid of power, with zero arm strength but great range gets the most out of his abilities in a cavernous ballpark that maxes his assets and minimizes his liabilities.
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#162 jokin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

As has been said many times already, Revere was certainly fun to watch but only a fool wouldn't be happy about this trade. Now I'd love to see us sign Marcum to a 3 year deal to have a solid, veteran arm in the rotation to go along with the young guys who will be coming up over the next 3 years.

A shortstop that doesn't make me weep would be nice too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.


The Twins absolutely have the money to do both. It's just unfortunate that the middle infield class is so weak this offseason.


You mean FA MI class, right? Because there were/are certainly MI potentially available in trade. Right now, there are at least half a dozen AAA teams that have a better MI rotation than the Twins do, embarassing, and potentially the prime diaster point for 2013.

#163 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

[FONT=Helv][FONT=Helv]I would submit that a player like Revere is best-suited for a cavern like Target Field. Offensively, big outfield gaps make more doubles and triples possible for speedsters who don't hit (m)any taters. Power hitters are going to get their homers, but a big ballpark weeds out the cheap homers from guys that are not typically considered deep threats, which minimizes his power limitations. Defensively, the only negative to Revere playing in a big outfield is his lack of arm strength becomes a bit more problematic. The trade-off is all that real estate gives him a big advantage in terms of defensive range. The guy gets to a lot of balls most OFers couldn't dream of. In addition to being a solid outfielder, he makes some of the best OF catches you'll ever see. Having a lot of territory track down fly balls / line drives caters to one of his biggest strengths.

I really don't see how playing in a bandbox like Philly benefits a player with Revere's tools whatsoever. A slap-hitting speedster devoid of power, with zero arm strength but great range gets the most out of his abilities in a cavernous ballpark that maxes his assets and minimizes his liabilities.
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Defensively, park size isn't going to matter much. Any MLB park is big enough to strain the range of any outfielder. Revere is going to shut down CF in Citizen's Bank Park.

Offensively, you have a point but Revere hits the ball on the ground A LOT. Park doesn't matter a lick at that point and I think facing inferior NL pitching will be more of an advantage than having a cavernous park in which to hit.

Plus, he may actually hit a homerun in Philly. I don't think he'd ever do that at TF.

#164 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

You mean FA MI class, right? Because there were/are certainly MI potentially available in trade. Right now, there are at least half a dozen AAA teams that have a better MI rotation than the Twins do, embarassing, and potentially the prime diaster point for 2013.


Yeah, I meant free agent middle infielders.

#165 S.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

The Twins absolutely have the money to do both. It's just unfortunate that the middle infield class is so weak this offseason.

Agreed on both fronts. If there were some better FA options I could definitely see us getting Marcum on a multi year deal, someone on a cheap one year deal (Liriano comes to mind), and a SS. Unfortunately, I envision them trotting out a middle infield of Carroll/Dozier/Florimon for a good chunk of the year, then potentially trying for a young SS at the deadline in a Willingham or Morneau trade if their value is up.

Though, TR has surprised me today. Maybe we'll be seeing a trade for a SS before the start of the year.

#166 crapforks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

You mean FA MI class, right? Because there were/are certainly MI potentially available in trade. Right now, there are at least half a dozen AAA teams that have a better MI rotation than the Twins do, embarassing, and potentially the prime diaster point for 2013.

MI could be the disaster point, but with no clear CF, two penciled-in SP (out of 5) and no lineup presence out of the 1,2,7,8 and 9 spots (assuming one of Doumit and Plouffe hits, but not both), I think 13 is shaping up to be a rough year. And a season I will spend much more time watching than last.

#167 LaBombo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Interesting that we actually got more for Revere than we did for Span. I'd put May between Meyers and Gibson. Worley becomes the number 2 starter, for the time being, behind Scott Diamond.


For what it's worth, the James projection thinks Worley's ERA should be about a half run better than Diamond's.

#168 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

I think 13 is shaping up to be a rough year. And a season I will spend much more time watching than last.


Funny how it works that way, isn't it? The true fans are more excited than ever while casual fans are moping that we "lost" Smiley McGee.

#169 johnnydakota

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

does this mean joe mauer bats leadoff?

#170 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

Interesting that we actually got more for Revere than we did for Span. I'd put May between Meyers and Gibson. Worley becomes the number 2 starter, for the time being, behind Scott Diamond.


For what it's worth, the James projection thinks Worley's ERA should be about a half run better than Diamond's.


I assume that projection was for the NL, not AL.

#171 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

does this mean joe mauer bats leadoff?


Barring any acquisitions, my guess is second with Carroll slotting in first (unless Hicks grabs that spot).

#172 crapforks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

http://www.philly.co...more-sense.html

Speculation that those two (Worley-May) plus one piece (Brown or a catcher) was maybe getting them Justin Upton

#173 johnnydakota

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

I think 13 is shaping up to be a rough year. And a season I will spend much more time watching than last.


Funny how it works that way, isn't it? The true fans are more excited than ever while casual fans are moping that we "lost" Smiley McGee.


see what hope does for ther fans? ยจ)

#174 S.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Funny how it works that way, isn't it? The true fans are more excited than ever while casual fans are moping that we "lost" Smiley McGee.

But...but...he's fast.

#175 jokin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

does this mean joe mauer bats leadoff?


Barring any acquisitions, my guess is second with Carroll slotting in first (unless Hicks grabs that spot).


This is the right order slot for Mauer, but Gardy will never do it. Flori/Esco/Dozier/Carroll gets slotted 1 or 2 until Hicks gets the call-up.

Edited by jokin, 06 December 2012 - 02:34 PM.


#176 jokin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

http://www.philly.co...more-sense.html

Speculation that those two (Worley-May) plus one piece (Brown or a catcher) was maybe getting them Justin Upton


But, but....."Revere is a nice-guy, worthless, low-ceiling nobody"....

#177 jokin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

I think 13 is shaping up to be a rough year. And a season I will spend much more time watching than last.


Funny how it works that way, isn't it? The true fans are more excited than ever while casual fans are moping that we "lost" Smiley McGee.


Still one more kick in the rear?

#178 TopGunn#22

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

This is a great trade. And it will necessitate the need to accelerate the Twins career of Aaron Hicks. We now have Diamond and Worely in the rotation. Signing Marcum and Myers (just using them as an example) gives us for competent starting pitchers. We had ONE last year and he wasn't in the rotation to begin the season. We scored 50 more runs than the Reds last year, even more runs than the Rays. What sets them apart from us??? PITCHING! T.R. is starting to git 'er done.

#179 Jim Crikket

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

After glancing through a few Phillies fan-sites, I'm struck by the reactions, as compared with most of those here.

Phillies fans are seeing the addition of a young, team-controlled CF with a lot of upside. Twins fans like Revere, but I think it's safe to say most of us doubt how much upside he has.

Twins fans are pumped about getting a top 100 pitching prospect in May. Phillies fans seem to consider May a "former top prospect" who lost that standing with a bad season in 2012.

Twins fans see Worley as immediately becoming the current #1 SP in the Twins rotation. Phillies fans frown a bit about losing a "solid" starting pitcher, but feel that's the price you pay and aren't too concerned because there appear to be a number of "back of the rotation" arms available on the FA market.

Just goes to show how perspectives affect things. The Twins have enough OF depth in the system that the idea of giving up pitching to get an OF is totally foreign. The Phillies have a rotation with multiple CY winners and consider losing Worely an inconvenient necessity, at worst.
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#180 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

[quote name='jokin'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='crapforks'] I think 13 is shaping up to be a rough year. And a season I will spend much more time watching than last.[/QUOTE]

Funny how it works that way, isn't it? The true fans are more excited than ever while casual fans are moping that we "lost" Smiley McGee.[/QUOTE]

Still one more kick in the rear?[/QUOTE]

That was aimed at casual fans, not Revere. I've seen dozens of comments today by casual fans lamenting the loss of a player that they just wanted to pick up and hug.

Ben's a happy guy. Good for him. But, like strange women lyin' in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government, smile factor is no basis for running a baseball team.