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Neal: Twins have offers out to starting pitchers

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#21 Top Gun

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:51 AM

Since the Twins are using "personal catchers" for some pitchers = Butera gets lots of work!

#22 East Coast Twin

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

The Star Tribune's LaVelle E Neal reports that the Twins have "several offers" out to starting pitchers including Joe Saunders and Francisco Liriano. He also adds that as many as seven teams could be interested in Liriano.


My guess is that LaVelle's source is from the players' side, since Saunders and Liriano share the same agent. It's possible that the Twins have also made other offers that LaVelle can't confirm.


John Heyman also identified Edwin Jackson, Shaun Marcum, Brandon McCarthy, Jair Jurrjens and Carl Pavano as potential Twins targets. I'm sure the Twins aren't going to confirm who they've given offers to. LaVelle can only write the name of players he can confirm.

#23 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

cannot imagine the backlash that will happen if they resign Liriano. As TopGun said......it makes sense after they offerred Butera arbitration as they have to find sometime for him to catch.
MN/Ryan are complaining about how teams are overpaying for pitchers BUT all that is happenning is the market is set higher than TRyan will pay. If they do a couple sloths as pitchers like Liriano/Saunders.....are we looking at a 75/80m payroll as Terry has stated that he is not messing with the everyday lineup by signing more guys.

#24 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

Saunders has a major league track record that includes durability and pitching innings for full seasons over the course of several seasons. There is currently no one in the organization who can have that said about them. So why would someone complain about signing him?

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

Saunders has a major league track record that includes durability and pitching innings for full seasons over the course of several seasons. There is currently no one in the organization who can have that said about them. So why would someone complain about signing him?


My guess is because he's not very good and he's over 30.

But I've come to the point where I'll take damned near anybody that isn't some reclamation project off the scrapheap.

#26 joeboo_22

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Look who the Twins are after and tell me that Liriano for less then 5 million on a 1 year deal is not a bad move? At worst I think he can help in the bullpen, but I think with Cuellar on the staff could help Liriano at least become a decent starter. His SO numbers weren't terrible, when he had control he was good, he still gave up some HR's but he will. And again if he is pitching decent he can be traded at the deadline.

#27 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

Saunders has a major league track record that includes durability and pitching innings for full seasons over the course of several seasons. There is currently no one in the organization who can have that said about them. So why would someone complain about signing him?


My guess is because he's not very good and he's over 30.

But I've come to the point where I'll take damned near anybody that isn't some reclamation project off the scrapheap.


My guess is because even Joe Saunders is going to demand $8-12 million which means he'll be the Twins big free agent spend even though he should be considered a #4 starter and a Joe Saunders anchored rotation is going to continue the Target Field attendance drain.

#28 Tcrose3636

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I guess at this point I am hoping for McCarthy, Lannan, and Saunders. And hoping that Liriano would be considered a bullpen addition.....a lot of hoping and listening to Mackey, my standards have dropped a ton.

#29 Twins Twerp

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

We knew this would happen. I don't know why we are sad about this. There is no reason to go out and spend money on a top tier guy, when we are 4-5 top tier guys away from winning. We are a horrible team right now and overpaying for a Sanchez is bad business. Nothing in the Twins history or hearing from Terry Ryan has told us otherwise. The fact that we might sign three new guys for the rotation is very un-twinslike. My guess is Saunders for 2 years at about 18-20, Liriano for 5 (and hopefully gets his trade value up and we trade him again), and maybe, maybe a guy like McCarthy. A rotation of Saunders, Liriano, Diamond, McCarthy, and whatever AAAA pitcher pitches best in spring ball, is better than the rejects we threw out there last year. Is this a .500 rotation, probably not. But Liriano in the bullpen in July when Gibson comes up makes this a better, younger rotation.

I don't mean to beat the drum on Liriano, but the guy (gulp) has potential.

#30 twinsfaninsaudi

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

[quote name='nicksaviking'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='twinsfaninsaudi']Saunders has a major league track record that includes durability and pitching innings for full seasons over the course of several seasons. There is currently no one in the organization who can have that said about them. So why would someone complain about signing him?[/QUOTE]

My guess is because he's not very good and he's over 30.

But I've come to the point where I'll take damned near anybody that isn't some reclamation project off the scrapheap.[/QUOTE]

My guess is because even Joe Saunders is going to demand $8-12 million which means he'll be the Twins big free agent spend even though he should be considered a #4 starter and a Joe Saunders anchored rotation is going to continue the Target Field attendance drain.[/QUOTE]


It's just really doubtful That the twins are going to give out a Gil Meche like contract in order to attract one of the in-demand pitchers on the market. Therefore those pitchers will go to other teams that will easily match the twins offer and won't be as glaringly lined up for a losing season.




It means the pitchers that will have an incentive to sign with the twins are the ones who were kicked out of a rotation at some point within the last year because they have the incentive to sign somewhere without stiff competition for a rotation spot so they will be assured of being starters. So that means you're looking at Correia, Liriano, Jurrgens, and Lannan.*

If the get Saunders, I'd call it an unexpected accomplishment.

#31 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

Twins would always say they dont spend in FA when they are good as they dont want to mess up their chemistry/roster
Twins say they dont want to spend in FA when they are bad cause they are too far away from contending.
Twins just dont like spending in FA period.

#32 beckmt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:57 PM

I tend to agree with twinsfaninsaudi, the twins are being used by agents to run up the price as the teams cannot share information, but the agents probably do on offers, so agents just take the twins offer to clubs they want to sign with for more money, or the agents use the twins rumor to extract more money

#33 Oxtung

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

It's amazing how things have changed in 5 months. Many fans wanted a front line starter prospect back for Liriano at the trade deadline or were flat out upset that he wasn't resigned. Now many don't even want him on the team no matter how low his salary. Just goes to show how much we as fans tend to overrate players based on emotional attachment.

#34 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

But why would anyone be OK with a rebuilding team paying a #4 starter $10 million each of the next three years? If Saunders is the best they can do, it's best to do nothing as 2013 is sunk and Saunders would be of no future help. Like I mentioned above, it's not like he'll help sell tickets.

#35 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

Why do I care if they spend that money on Saunders if the alternative is to pocket it? I would rather they sign him and trade him in a year, or keep him around, than watch the staff they had last year.

#36 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:59 PM

Frankie's 2012
First 6 starts 0W 5L 26.2IP 37h .346BAA .369Babip 28er 9.45era 6hr 21k 19bb .435OBP .589slgg
5 relief appearances
Next 11 starts 3W 5L 66IP 45h .190BAA .252Babip 27er 3.68era 6hr 79k 29bb .283OBP .312slgg
After Don Cooper fixed him
12gm 11st 3W 2L 56.2IP 54h .251BAA .311Babip 34er 5.40era 7hr 58k 32bb .355OBP .405slgg
WHY would MN take a shot on someone who you have NO idea what you're getting from start to start

#37 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Why do I care if they spend that money on Saunders if the alternative is to pocket it? I would rather they sign him and trade him in a year, or keep him around, than watch the staff they had last year.


I'll agree if the deal is only for 2013, but there should be better ways to invest that money in 2014 and 2015.

#38 Kwak

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

I tend to agree with twinsfaninsaudi, the twins are being used by agents to run up the price as the teams cannot share information, but the agents probably do on offers, so agents just take the twins offer to clubs they want to sign with for more money, or the agents use the twins rumor to extract more money

They don't need to--there are plenty of others who are passing said information around, such that interested parties can/will find out.

#39 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Well, if you do not want them to spend money this year, will you want them to next year, when it is way more expensive? That is the part that I do not understand in these discussions. But I am willing to listen....

#40 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

Frankie's 2012
First 6 starts 0W 5L 26.2IP 37h .346BAA .369Babip 28er 9.45era 6hr 21k 19bb .435OBP .589slgg
5 relief appearances
Next 11 starts 3W 5L 66IP 45h .190BAA .252Babip 27er 3.68era 6hr 79k 29bb .283OBP .312slgg
After Don Cooper fixed him
12gm 11st 3W 2L 56.2IP 54h .251BAA .311Babip 34er 5.40era 7hr 58k 32bb .355OBP .405slgg
WHY would MN take a shot on someone who you have NO idea what you're getting from start to start


But you do know. He's predictably inconsistant. He'll start off slow, though he does still generally pitch a 1-2-3 first inning. He should be a one inning guy in the pen until mid May to counter his poor control. Mid May stretch him out so that by June, when his WHIP and K/9 make a big improvment, he can join the roatation. Come the end of July, after managing his strengths and minimizing his flaws, move him for a modest return and aviod his late season swoon. This game plan wouldn't have only worked in 2012, but virtually every one of Frankies full seasons, it's not much of a gamble if you're expecting this outcome.

Ryan wouldn't have the guts to plan for this though so he's probably not worth it.