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Is Hendriks sewn up as 5th starter?

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#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

5th starter? As I write this post he's the number 2 starter. Maybe 3 if you plan on Gibson making the rotation out of ST.

#22 Twins Twerp

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

He is probably going to battle with those names you mentioned for the 4th and 5th spot. Finding 3 starting pitchers is just too hard to do in one offseason (and most us, me included, want 4 new starters). We might bring in one bigger type name (Haren, Sanchez, etc.) but we may end up with our number 2 signing being a Liriano type guy. I would not be mad if we ended up with Haren, Liriano, and McCarthy. Has anyone guessed we would get both Liriano AND McCarthy?

I shall be the first then. We will sign both pitchers for a combined 12 million. I will not say it is a done deal (thrylos) but I will predict it.

#23 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

He is probably going to battle with those names you mentioned for the 4th and 5th spot. Finding 3 starting pitchers is just too hard to do in one offseason (and most us, me included, want 4 new starters). We might bring in one bigger type name (Haren, Sanchez, etc.) but we may end up with our number 2 signing being a Liriano type guy. I would not be mad if we ended up with Haren, Liriano, and McCarthy. Has anyone guessed we would get both Liriano AND McCarthy?

I shall be the first then. We will sign both pitchers for a combined 12 million. I will not say it is a done deal (thrylos) but I will predict it.


Love the Thrylos reference. But with all do respect i hope the Liriano part of your prediction is DEAD WRONG!

#24 Kwak

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:13 PM

Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.

#25 LaBombo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.


You might want to lighten up on Hendriks a bit. After all, the kid had a whopping three years of full season pro baseball prior to the 2012 season. Three. Freaking. Seasons.

Hendriks and DeVries had very similar 2012 seasons. DeVries had slightly better peripherals, they both got killed by the long ball, and they posted nearly identical xFips of 4.75 and 4.72 respectively. The HUGE difference is that Hendriks, who turns 24 in February, is four years younger than DeVries and was more successful in the minors.

And there's a reason why Hendriks is on the 40 and Sam 'Slayer of Mascots' Deduno isn't. You just don't last in the major if you're just as likely to walk a batter as strike them out. He may suddenly discover control before his time runs out, but I wouldn't bet on it for a guy who turns 30 next summer. And apparently neither are the Twins, or for that matter, every other team in baseball.

#26 twinsnorth49

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

If Hendriks has a strong spring he gets the nod before Deduno or Walters and likely Devries. I have faith he can put it together to be a reliable starter, he has the pitches, he just needs to stop nibbling and throw strikes to get ahead of hitters. His best start of the year was his 3 hit, complete game against the Mariners and that's exactly what he did, it allowed him to mix it up and get guys off his fastball.

#27 Kwak

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:38 PM

Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.


You might want to lighten up on Hendriks a bit. After all, the kid had a whopping three years of full season pro baseball prior to the 2012 season. Three. Freaking. Seasons.

Hendriks and DeVries had very similar 2012 seasons. DeVries had slightly better peripherals, they both got killed by the long ball, and they posted nearly identical xFips of 4.75 and 4.72 respectively. The HUGE difference is that Hendriks, who turns 24 in February, is four years younger than DeVries and was more successful in the minors.

And there's a reason why Hendriks is on the 40 and Sam 'Slayer of Mascots' Deduno isn't. You just don't last in the major if you're just as likely to walk a batter as strike them out. He may suddenly discover control before his time runs out, but I wouldn't bet on it for a guy who turns 30 next summer. And apparently neither are the Twins, or for that matter, every other team in baseball.


There sure is a reason--hendricks pitches "the Twins way", and Deduno doesn't! The Twins require a guy to "pound the strike zone, and trust in 'stuff'." Hence, Blackburn, Slowey etal. BTW, I didn't criticize Hendriks--I merely pointed out facts--his major league experience was dreadful (1-12). That has to rattle a guy! I didn't say "deep six him", I am saying he shouldn't be penciled into the rotation.

#28 jorgenswest

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

Hendriks may not be ready.

Viola wasn't ready. Radke wasn't ready. They needed 50+ starts and it was their third full season before the Twins got the real payoff. The Twins received no pay off from Santana until year 3.

I don't think that Radke or Viola would have been allowed to work through their struggles with the current management and fan base. They would have bounced back and forth to AAA. Imagine the posts we would have read about them on this site.

I don't know if there is a pay off coming in Hendriks future. If the Twins scouts believe he has a solid future as a starter the Twins need to invest the starts.

If this site is representative of the Twins fan base, I don't think there is much willingness to be patient. I fear the management will listen to the fans and sign decline phase pitchers that have a better chance of being mediocre without any upside in the future.

#29 mnfanforlife

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

I completely agree...until the Twins sign someone "better" Hendriks and Gibson are the #2 and 3 best pitchers we have right now

#30 mnfanforlife

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

5th starter? As I write this post he's the number 2 starter. Maybe 3 if you plan on Gibson making the rotation out of ST.


Who does the organization have that is better? Nobody that is near MLB ready..thats for sure

#31 raindog

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:03 AM

I fully expect the rotation to include Diamond, Gibson, and Hendricks. Those guys, if healthy, need to pitch at the MLB level. If we can sign two veterans, I think we have a solid (not great), rotation. Say,

Sanchez
McCarthy
Diamond
Gibson
Hendricks

With Deduno, DeVries, and Walters when needed. I'm probably dreaming with Sanchez, but maybe a guy like Haren would be realistic. Not saying this rotation would make the Twins contenders, but it's a rotation that could make them competitors. Without really disrupting the rebuild.

Edited by raindog, 30 November 2012 - 04:36 AM.


#32 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:04 AM

With Deduno, DeVries, and Walters when needed. I'm probably dreaming with Sanchez, but maybe a guy like Haren would be realistic. Not saying this rotation would make the Twins contenders, but it's a rotation that could make them competitors. Without really disrupting the rebuild.


It would probably help the rebuild. With Span gone and Morneau one foot out the door, the Twins are going to have a lot of payroll flexibility. To get a guy like Jackson, Sanchez, or Greinke, it's going to take at least four years. That puts the contract through 2016 at the very least. That's smack in the middle of when the team should expect a productive Gibson, Hicks, Arcia, etc. to be on the team.

#33 Sssuperdave

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:19 AM

Dont believe Gardy ever lets players win a job in spring training.....tho they can lose it. Ive always thought Gardy knows his 25 guys coming into camp......believe Hendiks has the 5th spot and its his to lose, again if he's not dealt



I agree with this. As has already been pointed out the last few times there was a spring training "competition" for a spot, the player that played the best in spring training didn't get the spot. In my opinion, this is as it should be. It makes more sense to rely on a multiple year body of work (including minor leagues) than a few weeks in March when making these decisions. Based on that I do think Hendricks has a spot sown up. It might seem silly since he struggled last year, but he is more of a long term solution that Deduno, Devries, Walters, etc, and doesn't really need any more seasoning. Of course, if he continues struggling in April and May he should probably go back down to AAA the tune things up, but coming out of the gate I think it's his job to lose.