Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Article: Cubs Signings Spell Trouble for Twins

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,208 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...ouble-for-Twins

#2 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 7,451 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

Only 1 more year? Where is the pitching in the minors in 2 years? If he isn't willing to sign players this year...why would we expect him to next year? If he shies away from the market, just imagine how bad he is going to view next year, when each team gets an additional $20-25MM and prices go up even more.....

#3 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:01 PM

Rather spend $6m on Scot Feldman or Scot Baker for 1yr than get Sam Deduno or PJ Walters for 500K or Jason Marquis for $3m.
Not gonna get any value goin dumpster diving

#4 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,208 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

mww - It's a fair point. If Ryan doesn't dive in this offseason there's little reason to think he will next year. I mean, if some teams are already throwing money around in anticipation of next year's TV windfall, it's only going to magnify when those revenues are actually realized.

When you think about it, this might be Ryan's last chance to get players signed at a remotely reasonable price before an era of across-the-board increased spending commences. (I also think that agents are currently trying to leverage this dynamic, which is why we've seen few signings and those have been on the high side.)

#5 glunn

glunn

    Head Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,652 posts
  • LocationBeverly Hills, CA

Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

At these prices I worry that the Twins won't get anyone decent from the free agent market. It seems to me that we are looking at another losing year or three until some quality pitchers can come up from the minors and/or trading for prospects.

#6 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,312 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

Leaves room for Marcum and others. So it isn't bad at all. Baker doesn't deserve that salary as a base and the Twins would have been foolish to offer it. What if Baker is injured again in ST and the Twins have sunk 11 million bucks between Baker and Blackburn????

#7 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,208 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:53 PM

Leaves room for Marcum and others. So it isn't bad at all. Baker doesn't deserve that salary as a base and the Twins would have been foolish to offer it. What if Baker is injured again in ST and the Twins have sunk 11 million bucks between Baker and Blackburn????

As I said, the bad news isn't necessarily that these guys got swooped away from the Twins. The bad news is that if they are getting contracts that the Twins would have been "foolish" to sign, what are the pitchers who actually have any sustained track record of durability or success going to get?

#8 twinsfaninsaudi

twinsfaninsaudi

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 158 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

It all seems to point towards the wise move being an all out youth movement and trading Span, Morneau, and Willingham, and even Mauer, for the best minor league pitchers they can get that will still be under team control when the Sano/Buxton/Berrios/Rosario era begins.

#9 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,259 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

Leaves room for Marcum and others. So it isn't bad at all. Baker doesn't deserve that salary as a base and the Twins would have been foolish to offer it. What if Baker is injured again in ST and the Twins have sunk 11 million bucks between Baker and Blackburn????

As I said, the bad news isn't necessarily that these guys got swooped away from the Twins. The bad news is that if they are getting contracts that the Twins would have been "foolish" to sign, what are the pitchers who actually have any sustained track record of durability or success going to get?


They're going to get contracts from teams other than the Twins. That hasn't changed.

#10 Curt

Curt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 241 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

Everyone needs pitching. It is a scarce commodity. It should come as no surprise that the price of mediocrity increases. It should come as no surprise that, if someone has the need and the money, they will spend what it takes. It should come as no surprise that low-bidders will lament the high cost when they are out-bid.

"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here."
"Your winnings sir."
"Thank you very much."

#11 Rick Niedermann

Rick Niedermann

    Member

  • Members
  • 107 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

Have to agree with TwinsfaninSaudi that it appears the next chance for Twins competitiveness is 3 years down the road. I wanted to see the market first and hope that the Twins could get the quickfix done. But with the way things are shaking out, with the Cubs setting this market so high, it might be time to trade for high end prospects and hope it all that youth gels at the same time down the road. I'd sure miss Willingham and the prospect of him hitting one out. Sure fun to have that power threat in the lineup. But if your gonna lose 90+ games ya might as well sell high and bring in the kids.

#12 ThePuck

ThePuck

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,232 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:24 AM

At these prices I worry that the Twins won't get anyone decent from the free agent market. It seems to me that we are looking at another losing year or three until some quality pitchers can come up from the minors and/or trading for prospects.


Problem is, they aren't in our minor league system...so trades it is...

#13 dabecka

dabecka

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Rather spend $6m on Scot Feldman or Scot Baker for 1yr than get Sam Deduno or PJ Walters for 500K or Jason Marquis for $3m.
Not gonna get any value goin dumpster diving


Easy to spend $6,000,000 when it isn't your money.

#14 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 7,451 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

I disagree the market is already set too high. They can sign a 12 million guy, a 6million guy, and deal Span and a prospect for a legit prospect, and stay in their self imposed, too low, budget.

#15 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 931 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

Seeing what 6 million is bringing, do not know if I want a 6 million guy. Would rather sign Liriano back at 3 - 4- mil for one year and use the excess money to get a Marcum and a McCarty or a Jackson. And then make a trade for another starter.

#16 DAM DC Twins Fans

DAM DC Twins Fans

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 538 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

Have to agree with TwinsfaninSaudi that it appears the next chance for Twins competitiveness is 3 years down the road. I wanted to see the market first and hope that the Twins could get the quickfix done. But with the way things are shaking out, with the Cubs setting this market so high, it might be time to trade for high end prospects and hope it all that youth gels at the same time down the road. I'd sure miss Willingham and the prospect of him hitting one out. Sure fun to have that power threat in the lineup. But if your gonna lose 90+ games ya might as well sell high and bring in the kids.


Me too--throwing 6mill to mediocre pitchers is ridiculous. Trade off Span, Morneau, etc. for a few good pitching prospects and hope some come out of our current minor league crop and go for 2014 and 2015.

#17 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

I'm not sure which bothers me worse...that 3 years into a new stadium that the Twins "needed" to stay competitive (and which has been filled to virtual capacity) they are already making financial excuses, chopping payroll, and contributing nothing to stadium costs...or that many fans seem incredibly eager to embrace this course of action.

One more time: if they choose to do so, the Twins can handle a MLB payroll in the $125M range now, and more in the future, without losing any money. That they don't is because they CHOOSE not to, not because they CAN'T.

They can make a reasonable attempt to fix the 2013 team without damaging their chances in 2015. In fact, signing some decent pitching to multi year contracts has at least as good, and probably better chance of helping the 2015 pitching staff than does "trading off Span, Morneau etc for a few good pitching prospects" and hoping. They traded Santana for "a few good prospects." How'd that work out?

#18 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 7,451 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

So people think 6 million is too much now, but think in 2 or 3 years, when salaries will he much higher, that the team should then sign guys to fill holes is confusing to me....or are people saying that if there are holes then they should not also sign free agents then?

#19 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 931 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

So people think 6 million is too much now, but think in 2 or 3 years, when salaries will he much higher, that the team should then sign guys to fill holes is confusing to me....or are people saying that if there are holes then they should not also sign free agents then?

I think the issue is not 6 mil a year, it is the difference between a Feldman and possibly a Marcum, McCarty or Jackson. I would would spend high and low (Liriano or Myers) then to spend middle for bad pitchers. Any cheap one year deal could work out. 6 Mil puts a hole in the Twins payroll if it does not work out. I think either Myers or Liriano would be an upgrade to Feldman and better than Baker who would not be ready before May at earliest, by that time Gibson could be ready.

#20 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,208 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Seeing what 6 million is bringing, do not know if I want a 6 million guy. Would rather sign Liriano back at 3 - 4- mil for one year and use the excess money to get a Marcum and a McCarty or a Jackson. And then make a trade for another starter.


I don't see any reason why Liriano would get less than Feldman in free agency, so I don't know that signing him will leave as much excess money as you're hoping for, but I still like him as a target.