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David Schoenfield's TWINS BLOCKBUSTER Trade Suggestion

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#1 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

Here is his idea from an atricle on ESPN (http://espn.go.com/b...ade-suggestions)\

Reds trade CF Billy Hamilton, C Devin Mescaro, RHP Mike Leake, RHP Sam Lecre and RHP Daniel Corcino to the Twins for CF Denard Span , LFJosh Willingham, IF Jamey Carrol and IF Daniel Santana.

Thoughts?

#2 PseudoSABR

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Only if Hamilton goes back to the infield. And that's a lot to give up for the Reds, IMO.

#3 Boom Boom

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

I don't get the point of trading Span and getting Billy Hamilton back. It's a sideways move and the Twins already have a center field logjam. I'd want a middle infielder instead.

#4 Top Gun

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

Rockies signed RHP Jeff Manship to a minor league contract.

Manship was limited to 12 games with the Twins last season, but posted a 2.91 ERA in 80-plus innings at the Triple-A level. The deal is expected to include an invite to spring training.

#5 Top Gun

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Reds won't trade Hamilton or pitching so dream on.

#6 edavis0308

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

We could only be so lucky to have Hamilton as a part of our outfield logjam.

For starters.. check his stolen bases totals.

#7 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

That would be a steal for the Twins. Too good to happen. Taking off Willingham and Span's contracts would also free up a lot if money to use on a free agent starter.

#8 jorgenswest

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:58 PM

I would put in some cash to help pay for Willingham and keep Daniel Santana.

The deal makes sense towards rebuilding until they trade a position player who was 21 in high A.

#9 ThePuck

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

'I don't get the point of trading Span and getting Billy Hamilton back. It's a sideways move and the Twins already have a center field logjam. I'd want a middle infielder instead.'

Hamilton is a shortstop...they are moving him to OF, but he's played 311 games at shortstop, 50 or so at 2B and zero in the OF. We wouldn't have to have him in the OF...and y'all know how much Gardy loves speedy middle IFs...

#10 Rosterman

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

What is the real plus for the Reds?
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#11 biggentleben

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

That trade makes no sense for the Reds.
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#12 gunnarthor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

That trade makes no sense for the Reds.


Reds need a leadoff hitter and a CF very badly. Their leadoff hitters had a sub .300 OBP last year. They also need another corner outfielder or resign Ludwick. Willingham would be a better/cheaper option and would probably hit 40 HR in that park. The Reds are really just giving up some prospects in a win-now trade. It makes sense although none of these type of trades ever happen. I'd be happy to leave Hamilton out and add another pitcher but it's not an absurd trade proposal.

#13 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:52 PM

That trade makes no sense for the Reds.


Reds need a leadoff hitter and a CF very badly. Their leadoff hitters had a sub .300 OBP last year. They also need another corner outfielder or resign Ludwick. Willingham would be a better/cheaper option and would probably hit 40 HR in that park. The Reds are really just giving up some prospects in a win-now trade. It makes sense although none of these type of trades ever happen. I'd be happy to leave Hamilton out and add another pitcher but it's not an absurd trade proposal.


I certainly agree. The only way they Reds make this trade is if they are all in to win now. I as well would not mind removing Hamilton and adding a pitcher who has more upside than the ones proposed. The pitchers who the Reds would be giving up are solid 3's or 4's at best. I think if we removed Hamilton the reds could possibly throw in a pitcher with the upside of a soild number 2. I dont think we need Hamilton either giving he is a CF now, if he was a SS or 2nd baseman this would be an amazing trade but we have such a log jam we dont need him.

#14 biggentleben

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

The return isn't worth it at all for the Reds.
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#15 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

The fact that I look at those names and would make that trade in a heartbeat makes it pretty apparent it's too good of a deal for the Twins.

If the Twins were to get Hamilton, though, he could stay in the infield. Part of the reason he got moved is because the Reds have two SSs (Cozart and Gregorius) were can stick there and a 2B tied up for the long term (Phillips). Personally, I'd play Hamilton at second base. He doesn't have the arm for the outfield, but his speed makes up for it. Sound familiar?

Now, if the Twins were to include a better prospect than Santana... Arcia? Rosario? Then I think the Reds would have to consider it.

#16 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

How about this quote:

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty made things interesting last week when he told Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports that the Reds could trade one of their young shortstops (Gregorius will be 23, Cozart 27) if the deal could bring Cincinnati a leadoff-hitting outfielder or a closer.


Would you deal Glen Perkins for Didi Gregorius?

#17 gunnarthor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

How about this quote:

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty made things interesting last week when he told Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports that the Reds could trade one of their young shortstops (Gregorius will be 23, Cozart 27) if the deal could bring Cincinnati a leadoff-hitting outfielder or a closer.


Would you deal Glen Perkins for Didi Gregorius?


I would but the Reds don't need bullpen help.

#18 Kwak

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

I can't see the Reds trading that much talent for the Twins mentioned. Including Carroll--sand to the Sahara, pee in the lake, etc.

#19 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

[quote name='gunnarthor'][quote name='Jeremy Nygaard']How about this quote:

[QUOTE]Reds general manager Walt Jocketty made things interesting last week when he told Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports that the Reds could trade one of their young shortstops (Gregorius will be 23, Cozart 27) if the deal could bring Cincinnati a leadoff-hitting outfielder or a closer.[/QUOTE]

Would you deal Glen Perkins for Didi Gregorius?[/QUOTE]

I would but the Reds don't need bullpen help.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should call their GM up and let them know that before he trades off a shortstop for a closer.

#20 gunnarthor

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

Maybe you should call their GM up and let them know that before he trades off a shortstop for a closer.


Thought they had the best bullpen in the NL. But yeah, MLBtraderumors said they'd trade a shortstop for a closer or leadoff hitter. My bad. Thanks for being a dick about it. That said, I'd be ok with trading Perkins for an everyday shortstop.

#21 Twins Twerp

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:46 AM



Maybe you should call their GM up and let them know that before he trades off a shortstop for a closer.


Thought they had the best bullpen in the NL. But yeah, MLBtraderumors said they'd trade a shortstop for a closer or leadoff hitter. My bad. Thanks for being a dick about it. That said, I'd be ok with trading Perkins for an everyday shortstop.


Agreed. Doesnt make sense and no need to badger someone because u post alot and took a picture with DeNard one time

#22 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:55 AM

I'd say their GM is a little bit more reliable source than MLBTR. I figured you hadn't read the blurp the first time... and even though it might not make sense to us - though the Reds reportedly would like to move Chapman to the rotation - I'll take the GM at his word. (Though the last time I did that, TR said he didn't have eight players worth adding to the 40-man, so....)

#23 Craig in MN

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

I'd be fine with trading Perkins, but I doubt the Twins would be very high on that idea. I have been thinking about using Burton to sweeten the pot for a trade. He's only got one year of control left for the Twins, so he's not necessarily going to be around for a winning cycle. With his injury history, I'm not wild about giving him an extension just yet, so trading him makes a lot of sense. Keeping him only makes sense if the Twins are going to contend next year. Maybe the Reds would be interested in taking him back and think of him as a plausible closer....

#24 Kwak

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

Trading Perkins means listening to the howls of Gardenhire--"I need a closer!" This may result in another contract for Capps.

#25 Jim Crikket

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

Aren't the Reds still pondering turning Aroldis Chapman in to a starting pitcher? That would account for their interest in a new closer.
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#26 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

The GM comments about Chapman from MLB.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/n...ws_mlb&c_id=mlb

If they decide to put Chapman in the rotation, they will have several free agent options to pursue including Broxton and Madsen. They are familiar with both and neither will break the bank.

Therefore, they would not be desperate in making a move for Perkins with other options available. If they are not desperate, the return they would offer wouldn't likely be worthwhile.

#27 John Bonnes

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:09 PM

I can't speak to all the names, but I could see a deal that looks like:

Hamilton + minor league starting arms for Willingham, Span and pieces.

The Reds would at least consider that. Willingham and Span give them the offensive list they need for the next two years without breaking the bank. In that ballpark, in that league, Willingham is a 40+ HR guy, provided he stays healthy. And Span, as we've talked about for months, is a great fit for that team.

Can Hamilton stay in the infield? Why was he moved?

#28 Brad Swanson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

I can't speak to all the names, but I could see a deal that looks like:

Hamilton + minor league starting arms for Willingham, Span and pieces.

The Reds would at least consider that. Willingham and Span give them the offensive list they need for the next two years without breaking the bank. In that ballpark, in that league, Willingham is a 40+ HR guy, provided he stays healthy. And Span, as we've talked about for months, is a great fit for that team.

Can Hamilton stay in the infield? Why was he moved?


What I have read about Hamilton is that he just doesn't have the natural instincts and movements at shortstop. They seem to want to move him to center to utilize his speed a bit more. His arm is also below average in strength and accuracy. His speed would be wasted at second.

#29 Brad Swanson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Trading Perkins means listening to the howls of Gardenhire--"I need a closer!" This may result in another contract for Capps.


This is a really good point. I go back and forth on trading Perkins. He is cheap-ish, and has proved to Gardenhire that he can close games. If the Twins trade him, I would worry that they would replace him with a "proven closer" like Jose Valverde, which would be a downgrade in talent and probably cost more money. Ok, probably not Valverde specifically, but someone like that.

That being said, if anyone else who makes less money can close games, I'd shop Perkins to see what can be had for him.

#30 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

Can you imagine the Reds lineup in that small ballpark with a leadoff hitter who gets on 36-37% of the time (Span) AND adding Josh Willingham's right-handed bat between Joey Votto and Jay Bruce?! Not to mention Brandon Phillips.