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Take Landis Name off the MVP Award

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#1 Trov

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 01:57 PM

Barry Larkin, former MVP, has been calling for removing the Kenesaw Mountain Landis name from MVP awards.Personally, until I read the article about this, I did not know the name was on there, actually larger than the person who won the award.  

 

For those who do not know, Landis was first commissioner of baseball, and a well known racist that helped keep baseball white.It was not until after his death that baseball was integrated.Yes, he is historical in baseball, for both good, cleaning up the gambling that was going on, and bad the segregation of it.However, his name does not need to be on, and especially larger than the person who won the award, trophy.It is a constant reminder of the dark days of baseball, or should I say the white days of baseball.  

 

The only point of having his name on the award is to honor him.To honor him is to honor what he stood for, racism.This is just another example of the roots racism has in our society.The best players in baseball have to be reminded of the days when black players could not play in the majors every time they look at what should be a great achievement. Sad that this is still going on.Glad it is coming to light, and I hope MLB makes the change. 

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#2 Monkeypaws

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 05:04 PM

I think we are all getting a lesson in how intertwined racism is with this country's history.

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#3 Nine of twelve

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 05:17 AM

This is just the latest example of why it is problematic to commemorate someone in such a way. Names of awards, lakes, streets, buildings, cities, and other such things have needed to be changed. And the worst is giving a name to another person. I feel sorry for men named Orenthal James.

 

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#4 AceWrigley

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 09:45 AM

Kenesaw Landis may have been a racist SOB but he shaped the direction of MLB for better or worse. What are we supposed to answer when asked who was Commissioner of Baseball from 1920-44, "He who shall remain unnamed?"

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#5 Tomj14

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 11:11 AM

 

The only point of having his name on the award is to honor him.To honor him is to honor what he stood for, racism.This is just another example of the roots racism has in our society.The best players in baseball have to be reminded of the days when black players could not play in the majors every time they look at what should be a great achievement. Sad that this is still going on.Glad it is coming to light, and I hope MLB makes the change. 

First I don't care if they remove him or not, go for it, but I sure hope they don't put any name of it, because nobody is perfect.

 

Do you think that MLB only put his name on the trophy because he was a racist? ("The only point of having his name on the award is to honor him.To honor him is to honor what he stood for, racism")

 

If MLB put his name on the trophy ONLY because he was a racist, then we shouldshut down MLB, end of story that is gross, sickening and many other adjectives.

 

My hopes are that MLB weighed the good with the bad and made a decision that the good outweighed the bad and that is why they did it.

 

I sure hope when I die people don't only focus on the bad things I did and ignore the good things.

The CY Young award is named after a pitcher that pitched against only whites,might this remind them of days when black players could not play in the majors every time they look at what should be a great achievement?

 

Vince Lombardi was often accused of racism, should we remove him from the superbowl trophy and the statues around Green Bay?

 

 

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#6 ashbury

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 11:47 AM

What are we supposed to answer when asked who was Commissioner of Baseball from 1920-44, "He who shall remain unnamed?"

See, that's the straw man that keeps getting raised.

 

Take his name off the MVP award.

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#7 AceWrigley

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 11:56 AM

In the end, does this mean I have to return my awards in education because I once hit a teacher in the back of the head with an eraser?

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#8 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 12:03 PM

 

In the end, does this mean I have to return my awards in education because I once hit a teacher in the back of the head with an eraser?

 

Do you really think that's a comparable example?

 

 

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

#9 Tomj14

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 12:49 PM

 

We've gone 5,000 years teaching via written history but suddenly in the year 2020 the only way we can teach is with monuments?

 

That doesn't sound very cost effective frankly.

 

The God angle is interesting to bring up as well. I think all of these things would fall into the "False Idol" category. 

question, don't mean to be argumentative, but haven't people been creating statues for almost all of history? I think the oldest statue is 30,000-40,000 years old.

 

 

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#10 Tomj14

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 12:51 PM

 

 

Do you really think that's a comparable example?

If that teacher was a women or a person of color, it could be considered comparable? (assuming AceWrigley is white and male by his picture)

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#11 ashbury

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:00 PM

Can you tell me this won't morph into some other form of cancel culture "mobicity"?

You realize this is yet another strawman, in regard to the current question.

 

The MVP award didn't have someone's name attached to it in the beginning. There's nothing that says a naming decision made in 1944 is the right choice for 2020. The award will be just fine, if there is no name, or a new name, attached. That's all that is being discussed. Not erasing history, nor the empty phrase "cancel culture".

 

My little town just changed the name of its governing body from Board of Selectmen to Select Board yesterday. Residents' vote was about 80% in favor. Did we just erase history?

 

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#12 AceWrigley

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:01 PM

 

If that teacher was a women or a person of color, it could be considered comparable? (assuming AceWrigley is white and male by his picture)

And part Canadian Chippewa.


#13 ashbury

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:02 PM

If that teacher was a women or a person of color, it could be considered comparable? (assuming AceWrigley is white and male by his picture)

Awards bestowed upon someone, are different than awards bestowed upon someone with another's name attached. That's the disconnect. Is anyone proposing to rescind an award Landis received? No. The discussion is whether to un-attach his name to what future MVPs are bestowed.
 

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#14 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:24 PM

 

If that teacher was a women or a person of color, it could be considered comparable? (assuming AceWrigley is white and male by his picture)

Ash cleared it up nicely.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

#15 Trov

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:26 PM

 

First I don't care if they remove him or not, go for it, but I sure hope they don't put any name of it, because nobody is perfect.

 

Do you think that MLB only put his name on the trophy because he was a racist? ("The only point of having his name on the award is to honor him.To honor him is to honor what he stood for, racism")

 

If MLB put his name on the trophy ONLY because he was a racist, then we shouldshut down MLB, end of story that is gross, sickening and many other adjectives.

 

My hopes are that MLB weighed the good with the bad and made a decision that the good outweighed the bad and that is why they did it.

 

I sure hope when I die people don't only focus on the bad things I did and ignore the good things.

The CY Young award is named after a pitcher that pitched against only whites,might this remind them of days when black players could not play in the majors every time they look at what should be a great achievement?

 

Vince Lombardi was often accused of racism, should we remove him from the superbowl trophy and the statues around Green Bay?

First, I agree no name should be put on the award as an honoree award.I am not denying cleaning up the early days of baseball was a good thing.However, you can acknowledge that without putting his name on a trophy for playing, when he never even played.The fact the name is twice as large the person who played and earned it is crazy.  

 

The award was named after him the year he died, in 1944, still when baseball was segregated, so my guess they gave no thought to the negative it was and would become.How black players would feel about it was not even in the mind of the league as, thanks to Landis, they were not even in the picture. 

 

I do not know anything about Cy Young and his stance on black people, if he was an overt racist and let it be known, then yes I would be all for removing his name from the award.I would not support a Ty Cobb batting title, as he was well know for his views on black people. 

 

Although this is a baseball forum, if Lombardi was the level of racist you say, then yes, remove his name from the trophy.Just call it the super bowl trophy.Just because back when it was named the people doing did not fully understand how it would be perceived by people, does not mean when it is understood they should just leave it because. 

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#16 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:27 PM

 

Awards bestowed upon someone, are different than awards bestowed upon someone with another's name attached. That's the disconnect. Is anyone proposing to rescind an award Landis received? No. The discussion is whether to un-attach his name to what future MVPs are bestowed.
 

 

Moderator note: The bolded is the topic. If you want to broaden it to other awards in baseball, okay, but please stick to it instead of introducing all the 'whataboutisms' you can think of. They do nothing but derail the subject and delegitimize and dismiss the point being made.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

#17 AceWrigley

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:34 PM

At their 1944 meeting, the writers (BBWAA) renamed the MVP trophy the Kenesaw Mountain Landis Award. The commissioner died one month later, but his name remains on the award to this day. 

 

I think it should just be the MVP Trophy. Ask the Writers.


#18 Trov

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:38 PM

 

There is a difference between removing names and statutes to honor people, and removing them from being taught in history.I did not say burn the record books of the years black players were not allowed, and remove any mention of Landis.You can remove the name from the reward and not honor the man, but still inform people who he was and what he did both good and bad for baseball.  

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#19 Trov

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:44 PM

 

The anti-racist movement is veering into becoming an anti-historical movement.In 50 years, will we have to remove President Obama's name from anything/everything, since he once stated he didn't believe in gay marriage?Since Washington owned slaves, do we need to remove him from history as well?If there is no room in a society to allow for recognition of part of what a person did, while acknowledging the latter day understanding of the wrongness of other parts of what they did, we can't possibly maintain a historical sense of ourselves as a society.

 

If, as another poster stated, racism is intertwined with our history (which it of course is), than it cannot be removed without hollowing out our own history.As a country with no shared race, ethnicity, culture, or ideology, our history is the only thing that unites us as a people--both the good AND the bad of history.Pretending the bad didn't happen doesn't make things better, it makes us less connected and and more divided.

First, how is removing the name from an award getting rid of history?Second, how is removing statutes and monuments honoring people getting rid of history?Who has advocated for never talking about these people in text books, documentaries, or the many other ways to learn from history?I do not believe any person who advocates for removal of statues and monuments to honor people are advocating for never talking of them again.I learn all the time of Adolf Hitler and what he did in history, but I have yet to come across a statute of him honoring what he did.Following your logic I should have never been able to learn about him because statutes and monuments are the only way to learn history. 

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#20 Trov

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:50 PM

 

Kenesaw Landis may have been a racist SOB but he shaped the direction of MLB for better or worse. What are we supposed to answer when asked who was Commissioner of Baseball from 1920-44, "He who shall remain unnamed?"

No one is advocating from removing his name from MLB, only to remove his name from the award.The point of having his name on the award was to honor him.I do not understand where you read the advocacy of removing any mention of him when talking about the history of baseball.You can talk and learn about history without honoring certain people in history for what they did.Talk about Landis and what he did, good and bad, but do not honor his name making black players have to see it every time they look at an award that they should be proud to have earned.

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