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Twins remove Calvin Griffith statue

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#61 Channing1964

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 02:53 AM

Just like always in history, things that were okay before are no longer okay. After what our city has been through, its time for any racist enshrinememts to disappear. We all know Griffith brought the ream here. We should not have a statue of him alongside Carew, Oliva, Puckett and Killebrew. Also, I never recall Mr.Pohlad ever being accused of racism. Our State is not racist. I am proud of that fact.

#62 yarnivek1972

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 10:20 AM

I don’t have any specific info on this and I think it is important to be accurate on this sensitive and important topic. I do remember Jim Kaat saying the black players stayed in different hotels during spring training in 1965.


In 1965 I’m sure they were. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was still under court challenge at the time.

#63 jkcarew

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 12:43 PM

Sure, why not? Let’s take down the statue of the guy who brought Major League Baseball to Minnesota, so that we can more prominently feature the statue of the guy who tried to take Major League Baseball away from Minnesota. Carew has condemned the ‘78 comments while defending the entirety of the person the man was on numerous, numerous occasions. Of course none of that would matter since it’s 2020. Ridiculous.

#64 Craig Arko

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 05:36 PM

I’ve seen a few claims made here about Minnesota.

 

Here’s another viewpoint and data point. This matches what I recall of spending most of my 63 years here, mostly just across the river from downtown Minneapolis.

 

https://minnesota.cb...al-disparities/

I always wanted to know what it would be like to simultaneously experience the 1918 flu,  Great Depression, and 1968 mass protests while Andrew Johnson was president.


#65 TheLeviathan

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:31 PM

 

Sure, why not? Let’s take down the statue of the guy who brought Major League Baseball to Minnesota, so that we can more prominently feature the statue of the guy who tried to take Major League Baseball away from Minnesota. Carew has condemned the ‘78 comments while defending the entirety of the person the man was on numerous, numerous occasions. Of course none of that would matter since it’s 2020. Ridiculous.

 

It seems that the premise of your point here echoes a false equivalency running rampant on this issue.Statues are not "history".History is taught in museums.In textbooks.Statues are there to celebrate a legacy.They have little historical value beyond reminders to consult real historical information.Instead, their value is mostly tied up in their worthiness to be celebrated.In the case of Calvin Griffith and many others, their worthiness has been legitimately dismantled.His place in history is no less secure.His name will appear in wikipedia or whatever form our encyclopedias take next, as well as in various things the Twins have done and will do in the future to remember their team, and will always exist in the annals of time.What was done by the Twins is to stop pretending this man's conduct deserves celebration.

 

The same argument can be used for every statue in the south.Confederates were traitors and racists.Their cause was romanticized and bastardized by history that was part coping and part manipulation.Not a single man who served in that army, fought under that banner, and joined in that cause deserves "Celebration"They were racist traitors.However, museums and textbooks across the country will make note of Robert E. Lee's brilliance as a strategist.At the conduct of the soldiers that could be rightly called bravery in the middle of a war.That is where they belong: no longer romanticized, merely a part of history. Statues to celebrate them, just like Calvin Griffith, should not be confused as "history".They are monuments to a legacy.A legacy that was falsely conceived and one that can change as time and information changes.

 

Unfortunately, we've always had the information, and it took far too damn long in terms of time, but we've reached the point where those false legacies that deserve no celebration are meeting their end.It's not erasing history - history can neither be erased or preserved with some statue - it is righting a wrong. Undoing a folly that should have never been done in the first place.Wrapping yourself in some bogus false equivalency only preserves the original mistake of making the damn statue in the first place.

 

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#66 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 10:33 AM

Is there really any human being who’s life is worth “celebrating”? If one digs deep enough one can discover unsavory information about pretty much anyone, living or dead.

Where does one draw the line as to whether an individual’s “bad” behavior outweighs his/her “good” behavior to the point that that life should not be “celebrated”? Isn’t that a decision for the hearts and minds of every individual?

So, IMO we need to either rip down all statues/memorials dedicated to an individual or leave them all alone and let people decide on their own whether or not to “celebrate” an individual’s accomplishments.
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#67 mrtwinsfan

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:17 PM

Calvin was Drunk , which was quite Common, he is what he is, Good Bad Happy Sad, Play Ball !!!

Griffith's statements were only a "mistake" in that he said what he always felt outloud for all to hear, and truly exposed who he always was and the dogma that he came to infect his life with and spread it to others around him, if he could. It was not a "one time thing". 

 

Rod Carew exemplifies a grace and wisdom that is truly inspiring. For me, the fact that he can teach us that grace and practice forgiveness and understanding regardless, is a lesson that I can aways take a refresher course in. 

 


#68 nicksaviking

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:35 PM

This thread has run it's course.Let's move on to something new.