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Twins remove Calvin Griffith statue

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#21 Nine of twelve

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 07:02 AM

 

Griffith's statements were only a "mistake" in that he said what he always felt outloud for all to hear, and truly exposed who he always was and the dogma that he came to infect his life with and spread it to others around him, if he could. It was not a "one time thing". 

 

Rod Carew exemplifies a grace and wisdom that is truly inspiring. For me, the fact that he can teach us that grace and practice forgiveness and understanding regardless, is a lesson that I can aways take a refresher course in. 

I think it's likely you are right but we don't know that for sure. I have heard the explanation that even though he didn't hold those beliefs he was making a very poor attempt at humor, saying what he thought would entertain the audience. It would be analogous to an actor playing a role of a character who is unlike the actor personally. I don't advocate for or against that point of view because I have no way to know, but this would be a way to explain how Carew viewed the man and how Carew was able to forgive him.


#22 h2oface

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 01:35 PM

 

I think it's likely you are right but we don't know that for sure. I have heard the explanation that even though he didn't hold those beliefs he was making a very poor attempt at humor, saying what he thought would entertain the audience. It would be analogous to an actor playing a role of a character who is unlike the actor personally. I don't advocate for or against that point of view because I have no way to know, but this would be a way to explain how Carew viewed the man and how Carew was able to forgive him.

 

Sure. I know someone that everytime he says something or tweets something that exposes his true nature..... it is always a day later called a joke. I'm not buying that at all, in either case. 

 

And not at all like the actor analogy. There is no mystery that the actor is acting. And he doesn't have to ever explain that isn't the real person.

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#23 Nine of twelve

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 06:06 PM

 

Sure. I know someone that everytime he says something or tweets something that exposes his true nature..... it is always a day later called a joke. I'm not buying that at all, in either case. 

 

And not at all like the actor analogy. There is no mystery that the actor is acting. And he doesn't have to ever explain that isn't the real person.

I agree that the actor analogy was off the mark. Maybe more like a comedy writer who is paid to write jokes for a certain audience. The writer can write the jokes but that doesn't mean he or she buys into the sentiment of the jokes in his or her personal life.

 

My understanding of the story is that the remarks were intended as jokes. Whether that story is true or not I have no way of knowing. Again, I'm just the messenger relaying something I read or heard once. I certainly am not trying to find an excuse to justify what was said.


#24 Cast of Thousands

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 07:25 PM

Pohlad's were glad to do it, I'm sure.  Twins history will now be even more about them than Cal.  I doubt the Pohlad's needed much urging to get the job done.


#25 VivaBomboRivera!

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 08:36 PM

Cross-posting comment in Seth Stohs article


#26 rghrbek

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 11:26 PM

Being from Waseca, we did not ever want to be known for Calvin's comments.  Terrible and reprehensible.  Yet every few years we are reminded about this.

 

I agree with all that Rodney, who was my favorite player as a kid, said and still shows class even though those statements crushed him from a man he respected, Just shows his character.

 

I don't have to make high level decisions like the Twins made.  But I think their decision was the correct one to make.  I am proud of them for that, despite some of the positives that Calvin might have done.

Win Twins.

 

 

 

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#27 the_brute_squad

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 06:14 AM

We get a chance to hear from one of the integral people from 1978.

 

STATEMENT FROM ROD CAREW ON CALVIN GRIFFITH

MINNEAPOLIS-ST.PAUL,MN–

“I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins decision to removetheCalvinGriffithstatueoutsideTarget Field. While I’ve always supported the Twins decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments wereonthatfatefuldayinWaseca.TheTwinsdidwhattheyfelttheyneededtodoforthe organization and for our community.“While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it.“I first met Calvin Griffith in 1964 when he travelled to New York City to watch me workout at Yankee Stadium. Calvin and longtime Minnesota Twins scout Herb Stein must have liked what they saw as they signed me to a professional contract shortly thereafter. I can tell you when I got to the major leagues with the Twins in 1967, Calvin was my most ardent supporter. He told manager Sam Mele that I was the Twins everyday second baseman. I saw no signs of racism whatsoever.“In 1977, my MVP year, I made $170,000. When the season was over, Calvin called me into his office, thanked me for a great season, told me that I had made the team a lot of money and handed me a check for $100,000. You could have knocked me over. A racist wouldn't have done that.“There is no way I can apologize for what Calvin said in Waseca in 1978. His comments were irresponsible, wrong and hurtful. I recall my response at the time reflectedmy anger and disappointment.“Now that more than four decades have passed, I look back on Calvin’s comments and our personalrelationshipwithadditionalcontextandperspective.Inmyview,Calvinmadeahorrible mistake while giving that speech in 1978. I have no idea what happened that day, but who among us hasnotmadeamistake?IknowCalvinpaidaheavypriceforthosecommentsandIbelievehis thoughts on race evolved over time.“When he traded me prior to the 1979 season, Calvin told me he wanted me to be paid what I was worth. Later that year the Angels made me the highest paid player in baseball. A racist wouldn't have done that.“In 1991, the first person I called after I was told I had been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame was Calvin.“I have long forgiven Cal for his insensitive comments and do not believe he was a racist. That was NOT my personal experience with Calvin Griffith –prior to or following that day in 1978.”

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#28 R B TATE

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 07:06 AM

 

Yet as racist as Calvin could be, under his leadership the Senators integrated, Joe Cambria signed them a lot of players. Words versus actions.

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.


#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 10:45 AM

 

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.

This is the second time you've brought this up and I'll just copy and paste my last reply that you ignored.

 

Cut it out with this line of conversation. Literally *all of baseball* is less black (in the sense of Black Americans) and this is not the fault of the Twins front office, it's a baseball problem.

 

My last post copied:

 

"Black Americans have stopped playing baseball and going from memory, now occupy MLB rosters at about 1/3rd the numbers of 40 years ago.

 

Surely you realize that is not the front office’s fault and a much larger Major League Baseball problem."

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#30 Sssuperdave

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 11:31 AM

 

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.

 

I think having one's statue removed is a fair consequence for making drunken, racist comments. How many statues are there outside of Target Field? Maybe 6? It's not that hard to find six people who made enormous contributions to the Twins who were able to avoid making drunken, racist comments.

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#31 Tomj14

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 12:58 PM

IMO was a good thing they removed the statue, I fully expect Puckett's to be removed at some time as well. ( I am sure the Twins thought it was a good idea/right thing to do and probably assumed it would have added benefits to the team going forward, and probably keep the mob away from destroying it and possibly other things around target field)

I also believe at some point most of the George Floyd tributes will be taken down when people realize while it is good to show tribute to him for the terrible thing (murder) that happened he was still also a guy that terrorized a Hispanic woman who was at home with a baby during an armed robbery.

 

 

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#32 SkyBlueWaters

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 01:32 PM

 

Sure. I know someone that everytime he says something or tweets something that exposes his true nature..... it is always a day later called a joke. 

 

Bingo. And in both cases, where is the humor? 

 

 


#33 yarnivek1972

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 01:49 PM

Just an fyi, 1920 is the year Clark Griffith bought the Senators. So, in the last 100 years, two families have owned the franchise.

Unbelievable in this day and age.
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#34 SkyBlueWaters

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:11 PM

 

Yet as racist as Calvin could be, under his leadership the Senators integrated, Joe Cambria signed them a lot of players. Words versus actions.

 

Yes. It's part of baseball's narrative that the NL integrated and the AL remained white. Yet the reality was more nuanced, including all the Cubans who signed with the Senators.

 

I once went back through the Senators' rosters and looked up the Hispanic players, dating back to the 1930s and '40s.That ought to be part of the game's narrative, too. I'm not denying how awful teams like the Bosox were about this. I am saying the story gets over-simplified.

 

We took a baseball tour once that began in DC, ended in Boston, and stopped at Cooperstown enroute. In the display celebrating the NL and Brooklyn and discussing integration, one clause mentions the Senators, just passing mention, no player names. 

 

Not just the names familiar to many Twins fans, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos, Zoilo Versalles, and Tony Oliva.

 

But also Jose Valdivielso, Roberto Ortiz, Rene Monteagudo, Evelio Hernandez, and others.

 

Not to mention "Baby Ortiz" who gave 'em 13 innings in 1944. (I just liked the name.)

 


#35 yarnivek1972

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:19 PM

Yes. It's part of baseball's narrative that the NL integrated and the AL remained white. Yet the reality was more nuanced, including all the Cubans who signed with the Senators.

I once went back through the Senators' rosters and looked up the Hispanic players, dating back to the 1930s and '40s. That ought to be part of the game's narrative, too. I'm not denying how awful teams like the Bosox were about this. I am saying the story gets over-simplified.

We took a baseball tour once that began in DC, ended in Boston, and stopped at Cooperstown enroute. In the display celebrating the NL and Brooklyn and discussing integration, one clause mentions the Senators, just passing mention, no player names.

Not just the names familiar to many Twins fans, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos, Zoilo Versalles, and Tony Oliva.

But also Jose Valdivielso, Roberto Ortiz, Rene Monteagudo, Evelio Hernandez, and others.

Not to mention "Baby Ortiz" who gave 'em 13 innings in 1944. (I just liked the name.)


Larry Doby broke in with the Indians just a couple months after Jackie Robinson made his debut.
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#36 SkyBlueWaters

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 05:03 AM

 

Larry Doby broke in with the Indians just a couple months after Jackie Robinson made his debut.

Exactly! I started to include Robinson and Doby, but felt it was already getting long winded.

 

all the teams in MLB retire Robinson’s number. Ok, he was a great player. But would it take anything away from Jackie if Cleveland retired Doby’s number instead? Or each team retired the number of the first African-American to star for them? 
 

 

 


#37 R B TATE

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 06:43 AM

 

This is the second time you've brought this up and I'll just copy and paste my last reply that you ignored.

 

Cut it out with this line of conversation. Literally *all of baseball* is less black (in the sense of Black Americans) and this is not the fault of the Twins front office, it's a baseball problem.

 

My last post copied:

 

"Black Americans have stopped playing baseball and going from memory, now occupy MLB rosters at about 1/3rd the numbers of 40 years ago.

 

Surely you realize that is not the front office’s fault and a much larger Major League Baseball problem."

And it appears that you and your ilk are guilty of what you progs call systematic racism. Of course I ignore you, because you don't know what you are talking about. Blacks have not "stopped" playing baseball, and more would be playing and making it to the major leagues if these virtue-signaling hypocrites would go into Black American neighborhoods with half the enthusiasm of going into Latin America. They think that they have better "control" over Latin players. That is the dirty little secret that is coming out more all the time. I'll say it again. They call racism to cover their own racism. 


#38 yarnivek1972

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 04:15 PM

Exactly! I started to include Robinson and Doby, but felt it was already getting long winded.

all the teams in MLB retire Robinson’s number. Ok, he was a great player. But would it take anything away from Jackie if Cleveland retired Doby’s number instead? Or each team retired the number of the first African-American to star for them?


I would hope Doby’s number has already been retired. He’s in the HOF.
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#39 Nine of twelve

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 06:07 PM

 

Yes. It's part of baseball's narrative that the NL integrated and the AL remained white. Yet the reality was more nuanced, including all the Cubans who signed with the Senators.

Of the first twenty African-American players in the major leagues there were 10 in each league. The team with the most was Cleveland with 6.

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#40 Thegrin

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 12:38 AM

Rhe onlygood thing Cal Griffith did was bring the Senators to Minnesota. It was a dumb idea to make a statue of him and it is about time they brought it down.