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Blue Jays need a left handed hitting power bat at 1B. We have 2 of them.

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#1 robbie111

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

What could we reasonably get back from them?

#2 ThePuck

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

What could we reasonably get back from them?


When I saw today's trade the first thing I though of is: Could the Blue Jays have done that trade thinking maybe it could trade Johnson to us for Morneau (as the main pieces, not one for one)

#3 J-Dog Dungan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

I don't see much else for the Jays to give us outside of Johnson, although I haven't done much research in who they might send to us.

#4 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

I don't see much else for the Jays to give us outside of Johnson, although I haven't done much research in who they might send to us.



yeah I dont see much else besides Johnson either. Its highly unlikely they would trade Johnson away now. Im pretty sure the Blue Jays are all in on this season.

#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.

#6 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.


Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.

#7 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:08 PM

Johnson > Buerhle

#8 Craig in MN

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Terry Ryan was interested in Buerhle, for the right deal. Reports are that he had talked to the Marlins about multiple players. There are really only 4 likely players there....Reyes, Johnson, Nolasco, & Beurhle. I'd bet he asked about them all. I'd probably trade Morneau for Buerhle.

#9 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

johnson > buerhle


no sh**

#10 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

Johnson > Buerhle


Well, duh. But considering how Toronto only has Johnson for one season, I doubt they're willing to part with him for anything less than a king's ransom.

Buerhle and his considerable contract may be a different matter entirely.

#11 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.


Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.


They're going to have to spend money on somebody or they're going to end up with nobody. I don't like Buerhle's contract (hate it, actually) but if you can move Morneau's $14m in trade for it, that's a deal you need to consider.

#12 70charger

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp']Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.[/QUOTE]

Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.[/QUOTE]

They're going to have to spend money on somebody or they're going to end up with nobody. I don't like Buerhle's contract (hate it, actually) but if you can move Morneau's $14m in trade for it, that's a deal you need to consider.[/QUOTE]

I agree. And as much as I'd rather have Josh Johnson, I just don't think one year from him is going to make that big a difference.

And on top that, if anyone is going to age well, it's probably Buerhle. The guy shows no signs of slowing down.

#13 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:40 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp']Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.[/QUOTE]

Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.[/QUOTE]

They're going to have to spend money on somebody or they're going to end up with nobody. I don't like Buerhle's contract (hate it, actually) but if you can move Morneau's $14m in trade for it, that's a deal you need to consider.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, its something they should consider...but right now they should be considering just about everything. I would hate to see Morneau go, hes been my favorite player since he was in the minor leagues, but anything to make this team better.

#14 zchrz

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

I wonder if they could work something out to send Morneau and get Hechevarria back since the Jays should be set in the middle infield with Lawrie/ Reyes and 3rd with EE.

#15 Rosterman

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

Either pitcher would be great. If it was Buehrle, the Jays immediately sign Johnson to an extension. If the Twins could trade for Johnson, then resign him for an extension. You immediately save money. I actually think Morneau would find a new great home in Toronto.
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#16 notoriousgod71

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

Kelly Johnson is far more likely than Josh Johnson.

#17 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

Either pitcher would be great. If it was Buehrle, the Jays immediately sign Johnson to an extension. If the Twins could trade for Johnson, then resign him for an extension. You immediately save money. I actually think Morneau would find a new great home in Toronto.


It sure as heck would be nice to get Johnson. Im sure the Blue Jays might be exploring a trade of Buerhle, which if they did youre right they would probably immediately sign Johnson to an extension. Seeing as Morneau is from Canada im sure he wouldnt be upset at all getting traded to the Blue Jays.

#18 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

Kelly Johnson is far more likely than Josh Johnson.


Im not going to argue with you on that one. He has some decent pop although he is kind of a bad fielder but he is still better than anything we have right now.

#19 Steve Penz

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

I don't see how Toronto would trade Johnson for Morneau. It has been stated that Johnson, when healthy, is A list. A top level pitcher is worth more than what Morneau can bring. And, I see Morneau rebounding next year and putting up great numbers but that still does not equate to a true ace pitcher. I love Buerhle and even though his contract is heavy to have him would be great. Johnson will be very expensive after '13.

#20 Kwak

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

Why would they a LHB 1B when their RHs are hitting the cover off of the ball? Instead of adding Morneau (whose hittng statistics are overwhelmed by Encarnacion's) they could apply the same $14MM to pitching. To me this thread is a null set.

#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

Johnson > Buerhle


Well, duh. But considering how Toronto only has Johnson for one season, I doubt they're willing to part with him for anything less than a king's ransom.

Buerhle and his considerable contract may be a different matter entirely.


You hated Buehrle's contract when the Jays acquired it, citing money owed in 2014 and 2015 as reasons the Twins shouldn't have made a similar deal with the Marlins.

Now you want to give up Morneau to acquire Buehrle.

Weird.

#22 Riverbrian

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

Deck Mcquire... Chad Jenkins... Kyle Drabek... I have no idea if they are any good... But it looks like the Jays have some extra young arms for consideration... Give me a couple of those and I'll pray for their success.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

[quote name='USAFChief'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='twinscowboysbulls']Johnson > Buerhle[/QUOTE]

Well, duh. But considering how Toronto only has Johnson for one season, I doubt they're willing to part with him for anything less than a king's ransom.

Buerhle and his considerable contract may be a different matter entirely.[/QUOTE]

You hated Buehrle's contract when the Jays acquired it, citing money owed in 2014 and 2015 as reasons the Twins shouldn't have made a similar deal with the Marlins.

Now you want to give up Morneau to acquire Buehrle.

Weird.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the contract is more palatable if the Twins can jettison Morneau's $14m contract for 2013.

And I've repeatedly mentioned how I don't like Buerhle's contract. You know, like in the post directly beneath the one you quoted. The Marlins' needs didn't line up with the assets the Twins were willing to part with to get Buerhle. Toronto has a very different set of needs, particularly because it appears that they're going all-in for 2013.

#24 Willihammer

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

I like that idea as well but I don't think the Jays would do it, their pitching situation is bad.

It would be much more the Jays style to wait until Buehrle exhausts all remaining value and then trade him to the Angels.

#25 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='USAFChief'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='twinscowboysbulls']Johnson > Buerhle[/QUOTE]

Well, duh. But considering how Toronto only has Johnson for one season, I doubt they're willing to part with him for anything less than a king's ransom.

Buerhle and his considerable contract may be a different matter entirely.[/QUOTE]

You hated Buehrle's contract when the Jays acquired it, citing money owed in 2014 and 2015 as reasons the Twins shouldn't have made a similar deal with the Marlins.

Now you want to give up Morneau to acquire Buehrle.

Weird.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the contract is more palatable if the Twins can jettison Morneau's $14m contract for 2013.

And I've repeatedly mentioned how I don't like Buerhle's contract. You know, like in the post directly beneath the one you quoted. The Marlins' needs didn't line up with the assets the Twins were willing to part with to get Buerhle. Toronto has a very different set of needs, particularly because it appears that they're going all-in for 2013.[/QUOTE]

And Morneau's $14M contract for 2013 has what to do with 2014 and 2015?

You'll also have a hard time convincing me the Twins couldn't have matched, or beat, what the Jays gave the Marlins, so I'm no buying the "need's didn't line up" rationale.

I would have loved for the Twins to end up with Reyes, Buehrle and Josh Johnson, basically for little besides money. But that's because it included Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes. Seems kind of...hypocritical to say you didn't like the Jays end of the Marlins deal because of Buehrle, then turn around and love the idea of giving up your first baseman, just to get Buehrle.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:36 PM

And Morneau's $14M contract for 2013 has what to do with 2014 and 2015?

You'll also have a hard time convincing me the Twins couldn't have matched, or beat, what the Jays gave the Marlins, so I'm no buying the "need's didn't line up" rationale.

I would have loved for the Twins to end up with Reyes, Buehrle and Josh Johnson, basically for little besides money. But that's because it included Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes. Seems kind of...hypocritical to say you didn't like the Jays end of the Marlins deal because of Buehrle, then turn around and love the idea of giving up your first baseman, just to get Buehrle.


It's not that difficult. I am against the Twins giving up prospects at this point. It's that simple. The Marlins would have required prospects in return and it's unlikely the Pohlad's would have agreed to the kind of money required to keep Johnson, Buerhle, and Reyes. So, the deal was basically a no-go with the Marlins and the salary considerations for picking up both Reyes and Buerhle are ridiculous. They'd do serious long-term damage to this franchise.

But now we're talking about the Jays. A Jays team that *might not* want to keep all that salary around for 3+ years. Reyes is only slotted to make $10m in 2013 but that number jumps to $22m in the final year of Buerhle's contract and goes through 2018. The Jays also happen to need a first baseman. Maybe toss in Revere and you're starting to put together a package that isn't so bad and it's a package that doesn't cost the Twins a prospect.

Does it hamstring the Twins a bit in 2014 and 2015? Sure, and that's a serious downside of acquiring Buerhle. On the other hand, it also gives the Twins the ability to dish Span off for a lower level prospect instead of worrying about the Major League franchise so much. Is this likely to happen? Probably not, but it should be on the table.

#27 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

please for the love of God stop suggesting we try to get Mark Burhle.

#28 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

Absolutely not on Buerhle, if we are going to over pay for a pitcher I would rather go out and give Greinke 100 mil then that turd Buerhle, also Johnson is going no where.

#29 mnfireman

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

Kudos to the Jays for the Deal of the Decade, if not Century. That being said, I don't think they are done. There are several free agents out there yet plus, it seems, they are very creative on the trade front. While Morneau would be a great publicity move, I don't think they look at him before next years trade deadline.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:22 PM


And Morneau's $14M contract for 2013 has what to do with 2014 and 2015?

You'll also have a hard time convincing me the Twins couldn't have matched, or beat, what the Jays gave the Marlins, so I'm no buying the "need's didn't line up" rationale.

I would have loved for the Twins to end up with Reyes, Buehrle and Josh Johnson, basically for little besides money. But that's because it included Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes. Seems kind of...hypocritical to say you didn't like the Jays end of the Marlins deal because of Buehrle, then turn around and love the idea of giving up your first baseman, just to get Buehrle.


It's not that difficult. I am against the Twins giving up prospects at this point. It's that simple. The Marlins would have required prospects in return and it's unlikely the Pohlad's would have agreed to the kind of money required to keep Johnson, Buerhle, and Reyes. So, the deal was basically a no-go with the Marlins and the salary considerations for picking up both Reyes and Buerhle are ridiculous. They'd do serious long-term damage to this franchise.

But now we're talking about the Jays. A Jays team that *might not* want to keep all that salary around for 3+ years. Reyes is only slotted to make $10m in 2013 but that number jumps to $22m in the final year of Buerhle's contract and goes through 2018. The Jays also happen to need a first baseman. Maybe toss in Revere and you're starting to put together a package that isn't so bad and it's a package that doesn't cost the Twins a prospect.

Does it hamstring the Twins a bit in 2014 and 2015? Sure, and that's a serious downside of acquiring Buerhle. On the other hand, it also gives the Twins the ability to dish Span off for a lower level prospect instead of worrying about the Major League franchise so much. Is this likely to happen? Probably not, but it should be on the table.


Am I reading this correctly? You want to send Morneau AND Revere to Toronto for Buehrle?

Good lord.

Toronto is able to get Johnson and Reyes for basically nothing but money, but have to take Buehrle's contract off the Marlins hands to get the deal done. And you want to bail Toronto out by taking Buehrle off thier hands? Why in heaven's name wouldn't the Twins have simply given a few decent, not great, prospects (and that's all Miami got) and gotten all three players then? You could still deal Morneau (and Revere) at that point, and you'd have Josh Johnson and Buehrle in the rotation and Reyes at short.

Buehrle was the yucky medicine you had to swallow in order to get the sugar (Johnson and Reyes). He's not someone you go out and acquire now, all by his lonesome.