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Max Kepler and the Cost of Silence

max kepler
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#41 drivlikejehu

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:14 AM

 

Only if you're suggesting that many people believe that George Floyd's death was an acceptable price to pay to maintain the status quo. In which case people need to own that position instead of trying deflect the conversation to property damage.

 

I really don't believe that there is a significant part of the population that thinks this was acceptable, but I am starting to believe there is a significant part of the population that thinks it was unacceptable but are unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to change it.

 

And let me guess, those "sacrifices" happen to be spelled out precisely in the platform of the Democratic Socialists of America.

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#42 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:15 AM

And let me guess, those "sacrifices" happen to be spelled out precisely in the platform of the Democratic Socialists of America.

The Democratic Party has a pretty lousy track record on this issue, too.

Say it again, class:

This doesn’t have to be partisan unless I make it partisan!
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#43 drivlikejehu

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:17 AM

 

The Democratic Party has a pretty lousy track record on this issue, too.

Say it again, class:

This doesn’t have to be partisan unless I make it partisan!

 

I meant the actual DSA, not the Democratic Party. 

 

You should learn the difference between "partisan" and "political."

 

MANY things are political that are not really "partisan."

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#44 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:19 AM

I meant the actual DSA, not the Democratic Party.

You should learn the difference between "partisan" and "political."

MANY things are political that are not really "partisan."

You... mentioned... a party...
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#45 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:20 AM

 

And let me guess, those "sacrifices" happen to be spelled out precisely in the platform of the Democratic Socialists of America.

 

Not necessarily, I haven't read their manifesto so I couldn't really say. But I would find it disappointing if people think socialism is a worse sin than racial inequality.

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#46 drivlikejehu

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:24 AM

 

Not necessarily, I haven't read their manifesto so I couldn't really say. But I would find it disappointing if people think socialism is a worse sin than racial inequality.

 

So let me get this straight - this issue isn't political, it's just that to resolve it we all need to embrace socialism?

 

Just want to make sure I understand. If you are going to criticize people like Kepler for not speaking out, don't repeat the mistake by hiding what you really mean.

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#47 USMCTwin

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:28 AM

This does seem to belong better in the off topic thread. My biggest takeaway is we lack empathy for others, especially those we disagree with. We presume the other side to be evil simply because we don't agree. Unfortunately, this article bears that out to me. At one point I was an avid reader of Aaron Gleeman (quite a ways back). He made a political post at one point we disagreed and he told me he would rather me stop reading his work than disagree. It still bothers me, but when someone tells you who they are you should believe them. I hope that isn't the way we are headed on Twins Daily since this place has been so good at bringing people together and has even been open to other views on the political threads before they became a thing of the past, until this one popped up in the Twins news thread. It's disappointing. Love each other, try to assume positive intent, and always be ready for an act of kindness instead of malice.

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#48 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:29 AM

 

So let me get this straight - this issue isn't political, it's just that to resolve it we all need to embrace socialism?

 

Just want to make sure I understand. If you are going to criticize people like Kepler for not speaking out, don't repeat the mistake by hiding what you really mean.

 

I didn't bring up socialism, that was your suggestion.

 

I also didn't criticize Kepler.


#49 Craig Arko

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:33 AM

FWIW, I think Kepler is good if he learned something from this.

 

I despise politics and resent every minute it takes from my life. But I have learned that I ignored it at my own peril, and the peril of those I care about.

 

So I swallow the resentment and try to do what I can to help. I believe that is the responsibility of being a citizen and enjoying the rights and privileges thereof. 

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#50 drivlikejehu

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:35 AM

 

I didn't bring up socialism, that was your suggestion.

 

I also didn't criticize Kepler.

 

Semantics. You said we need to make "sacrifices" to address this issue. What are they?

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#51 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:44 AM

 

Semantics. You said we need to make "sacrifices" to address this issue. What are they?

 

Requesting that our leaders put the need for racial equality at the top of their priority list instead of somewhere in the middle? And actually do it, not just give it lip service?

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#52 USNMCPO

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:47 AM

Nick, I am assuming that you wrote this article with the absolutely best intentions and that is not wrong. There is something rotten in America (and the world) that must change. You and the other owners have stated your position and have every right to do so. You also, as a group, decry the politics discussed. The problem I see is that you made it political. It is impossible to deny that our country is divided along political lines, yet you quote and thus elevate CNN and presenter Cuomo as a beacon of wisdom. Are you not aware of the enmity that they engender among more conservative citizens? If so, please educate yourself on a broader spectrum of our society. What do you think the reactions would have been had you quoted Rush Limbaugh? Cuomo has about the same kind of credibility on the right as Limbaugh has on the left. Again, please do not decry things as political, when you introduced politics into it.

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#53 saviking

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:52 AM

Nick, YOU created a firestorm. I hope you have learned a lesson from taking your personal moral high ground, You have a Democratic Governor and Major. If they can't solve the problem then it is unsolvable. What is solvable is putting down the insurgency and protecting your fellow Minnesotan's. You live in a very liberal state yet your city burns out of control. In fact, almost all of these cities are run by liberal Democrats. So what's your solution now. Elect Socialists, Communists. Leaders need to be pragmatic. Your leadership gave them an inch and they took a mile. The rioters (not the peaceful protestors) did this. Why aren't you calling them out. And what's wrong with protecting our brave police officers that have risked their lives protecting their communities. This riot ought to give you a glimpse the type of individuals (yes there are many whites rioting along with the blacks) they have to deal with every day in rough neighborhoods. It's not an easy job so when a few rouge cops do something wrong you should focus on the thousands of good cops that are in danger. But your way of thinking makes it taboo to do so. That's what's wrong with the country. It's the political corrects in lue of common sense that is causing the problem. Elect a strong Governor and Mayor or they might come to your neighborhood and burn down your house as well. 

 

Okay, I'm done. Thing I will stop reading the Twins Daily until baseball season but if you ever inflame this forum again I'm done with it ...

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#54 Wax off

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:52 AM

"What really grinds on me is that first follow-up message. "Not into politics [peace sign].""

That always irritates me too. Don't pay attention to politics? OK, the rest of us will pick up the slack for you. Sick of slackers who are "not into politics."

Grow up, Kepler, past time to consider becoming an adult.

Thanks for speaking out Nick.
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#55 drivlikejehu

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 08:52 AM

 

Requesting that our leaders put the need for racial equality at the top of their priority list instead of somewhere in the middle? And actually do it, not just give it lip service?

 

That doesn't mean anything. For one thing, there is no objective definition of "racial equality." For another thing, everyone says their preferred system is best to tackle racial and other forms of inequality. Pure libertarians say abolishing all government would do the trick. Far leftists say a Cuba-like system is the best way.

 

Let's say that someone agrees with Nick's regurgitation of what tens of thousands of more influential people have already said. What then? Nick doesn't even attempt to address that. You did so very vaguely and can't back it up in a meaningful way. What is the point?

 

Let's face it, the TD post was virtue-signaling, and nothing more. It was not intended to actually make anything better, or if it was, it was very poorly thought out.

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#56 Kummel

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:08 AM

Thank you Nick, for writing on this subject. The history of sports is inalienable from the history of politics and race. With regard to this moment, basketball star Kareem Abdul-Jabar explained in the LA Times:"African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in.”' Athletes and sports writers who are helping to let the sun in deserve respect, not condemnation. 

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#57 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:16 AM

As a moderator, I'll note that we've had political discussions shut down for quite some time due to the contentious nature. Unfortunately, given the world events at the moment this has crossed into baseball whether we like it or not, so I'm going to simply ask that we try and be respectful. 

 

We've always had a position here about being respectful to each other when it comes to our posts. We need that now more than ever. You don't have to agree with Nick, but I am going to ask that it be done respectfully. That also goes for those who agree with Nick. There's no reason to be referring to anyone's posts as pathetic. Nor is there a reason to be telling others to grow up. I think we can all try and do a bit better job in this area. Our nation is hurting right now. Changes need to happen and people need to heal. Let's keep that in mind as we discuss this, and if we cannot be respectful, perhaps read something else. 

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#58 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:16 AM

Thank you Nick, for writing on this subject. The history of sports is inalienable from the history of politics and race. With regard to this moment, basketball star Kareem Abdul-Jabar explained in the LA Times: "African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in.”' Athletes and sports writers who are helping to let the sun in deserve respect, not condemnation.

One of the most important civil rights moments in the history of this country was when a black man stepped onto a baseball diamond wearing Dodger blue. Racial equality and baseball have a storied history, both good and bad.
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#59 Ginsamax

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:18 AM

 

Let's face it, the TD post was virtue-signaling, and nothing more. It was not intended to actually make anything better, or if it was, it was very poorly thought out.

 

This is one of the biggest Minnesota news stories of my lifetime (born 1978). Max Kepler put on a Blue Lives Matter mask and made national news. He then made a pithy, half-hearted apology. While I do understand that he is a very young man and was raised in Germany, he is still a public figure and a Twins player. How could a Twins website not cover it? 

 

As far as solutions are concerned, would you want Nick Nelson to cite studies about the value of mandatory police training in de-escalation techniques, awareness of white privilege and policy changes regarding the demilitarization of police (should our tax money pay for local police to have tanks and military weapons?) and immediate suspension of officers accused of policy brutality (Chauvin had 17 such accusations)?All of these measures have and are being studied and are working where they are being implemented. Do they belong in an article about Max Kepler? I'm not so sure. It certainly would have been a lot longer. Would the "shut up and dribble" crowd have read it? I have my doubts.

 

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#60 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:25 AM

 

 

Let's say that someone agrees with Nick's regurgitation of what tens of thousands of more influential people have already said. What then? Nick doesn't even attempt to address that. You did so very vaguely and can't back it up in a meaningful way. What is the point?

 

 

I did leave it vague intentionally so as to keep politics out as best as possible. I presume Nick Nelson was trying to do the same. To remain vague but a bit more descriptive, if people want this to change, they are going to need to stop sending people to Washington they know will not prioritize this. This is the sacrifice I refer to. Neither party is immune to giving lip service and no substance to this topic.

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