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Max Kepler and the Cost of Silence

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#241 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 10:59 AM

 

Serious question, are you guys planning on donating the money you're getting from the ads I'm seeing on this article to an organization that's trying to affect change? Seems like it would be appropriate. Also is there a list anywhere of such organizations so people could donate?

It'd be a pittance, really. Once the dust settles and I determine who most needs help, I will personally donate an amount that dwarfs the tiny amount of ad revenue we'll get from this single article.

 

To put it in perspective, I plan to donate roughly the same amount of money I'll make from Twins Daily this entire year.

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#242 Nick Nelson

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:00 AM

 

1. In general many individuals do not understand- the extent of racism, or things or symbols that could be construed as racist.To have an entire post focused on an individual player who is extremely young and not likely fully aware of past historical context is short sighted at best. 

Lack of awareness is not an excuse. Plain and simple. Kepler has lived in the United States for more than a decade and is a 27-year-old adult. No one's asking him to fully understand the intricate historical context of racism and police brutality in America -- Kepler played at Target Field the night Philando Castile was murdered miles away in 2016. It's been one of our nation's foremost social issues for the duration of the time he's lived here and frankly its relevance extends beyond the United States, if you look at the widespread protests taking place across the world (including Germany). 

 

And again, no one is accusing him of having any racist feelings. The issue here is apathy and dismissiveness toward a crisis gripping our city and country. If we don't start calling it out, it won't change.

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#243 bunsen82

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:10 AM

 

Lack of awareness is not an excuse. Plain and simple. Kepler has lived in the United States for more than a decade and is a 27-year-old adult. No one's asking him to fully understand the intricate historical context of racism and police brutality in America -- Kepler played at Target Field the night Philando Castile was murdered miles away in 2016. It's been one of our nation's foremost social issues for the duration of the time he's lived here and frankly its relevance extends beyond the United States, if you look at the widespread protests taking place across the world (including Germany). 

 

And again, no one is accusing him of having any racist feelings. The issue here is apathy and dismissiveness toward a crisis gripping our city and country. If we don't start calling it out, it won't change.

We can agree agree to disagree.  I believe it does.Its not as if he is inherently racist, and he has not gone through history 101 at the high school level or the college level, and has apparently had no negative interactions to make his conscience aware. Its similar to kid, you need to educate.If this is his first awareness, educate, let him have some conversations with his teammates, done. You are taking a moral highground approach, that everyone should be on your level of awareness, and if not should be blasted.That approach does not create change, as I have posted above.Its from honest conversations, relationships and putting the work in to cause change.  

 

I am impressed Brock and a few plan to donate.However, that will cause a pittance of change of what any of us can cause by merely getting involved, getting out of our own comfort zones, and becoming good role models, friends, confidants ect.Relationships cause more change than money any day.   


#244 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:14 AM

 

We can agree agree to disagree.  I believe it does.Its not as if he is inherently racist, and he has not gone through history 101 at the high school level or the college level, and has apparently had no negative interactions to make his conscience aware. Its similar to kid, you need to educate.If this is his first awareness, educate, let him have some conversations with his teammates, done. You are taking a moral highground approach, that everyone should be on your level of awareness, and if not should be blasted.That approach does not create change, as I have posted above.Its from honest conversations, relationships and putting the work in to cause change.  

 

I am impressed Brock and a few plan to donate.However, that will cause a pennance of change of what any of us can cause by merely getting involved, getting out of our own comfort zones, and becoming good role models, friends, confidants ect.Relationships cause more change than money any day.   

Agreed 100%, which has been the over-arching theme of my dozens of posts in this thread.

 

Donating is good. Acknowledging the problem and actively working against it is better.


#245 bunsen82

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:37 AM

Just curious, has anyone here been in the blue eyed, brown eye experiment?Did it in 10th grade.You want enlightenment, have a little taste of prejudice and it opens your eyes really quick.Still stuck with me 20 years later.That singular day in the morning was one of the most awful experiences I have ever had. You learn real quick why individuals who are subjected to racism are jaded, don't excel as well and generally do not achieve their potentialand make poor decisions due to the negative feedback loop they receive. 

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#246 TFRazor

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:38 AM

 

Agreed 100%, which has been the over-arching theme of my dozens of posts in this thread.

 

Donating is good. Acknowledging the problem and actively working against it is better.

I don't think anyone on here is refusing to acknowledge that there's a problem. It seems as if everyone agrees that police brutality, indeed brutality of any kind, is wrong. The disconnect seems to be on the cause of the brutality. There are those that believe it stems from a racist system that targets a particular minority because of their skin color. Others believe the problem stems from that fact that some people (and please forgive my swearing even though I know it's going to come up as an asterisk) are *******s and huge pieces of human excrement who work their way into positions of authority where their evil deeds can affect people. Again, there is no disconnect on the problem. It's on the cause. I'm just afraid that sometimes we can forget that.


#247 rdehring

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:38 AM

I want to say something, guys, about Max Kepler and the Twins in general. Somewhere back in time I have seen one or more comments that the Twins haven't done as much as some would expect speaking out about this matter. I was disappointed when I read that, but not about the Twins.

 

You see the Twins are different than the other teams in town. Of the 25 players on their roster at the end of last year, I believe there is only one who is in fact an African American. That's Byron Buxton, who's tweets I recall seeing. Unless I am missing someone, all the other black players aren't African American as they aren't from the U.S. (realize that Eddie Rosario may be in the grey area) 

 

So there may be four reasons they aren't speaking out about this: 1) they are back wherever they are from and aren't even aware of it as I believe at least half of that team were foreign; 2) they don't speak English all that well; 3) they don't use twitter and any of the other social media outlets like some of you; or 4) they are aware and want to stay as far away from the issue as they can. Some of you will claim that this fourth item is a mistake on their part. But looking at what happened to Kepler will cause them to think long and hard about opening their mouth or applying their finger to their phone.  

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#248 Sconnie

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:57 AM

If you don’t have money to give, but have some time to spare, there are many food pantries that need labor to help pack boxes and load cars/carts and such.

Justin Grimm (Justin.grimm@elca.org) from the ELCA is organizing one at Bethlehem Lutheran-Midway. My wife drove in yesterday to help. Everyone masked up for Covid, social distanced and appreciated the help.
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#249 Yossarian

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:01 PM

 

Actually, everyone I know was outraged over it, as it was yet another example of police shooting first and thinking second.

 

Excellent.However, I don't recall Max Kepler taking a public stand on this episode of police misconduct.And I do not recall TD calling out Kepler for not taking a public stand.Please correct me if I'm wrong.


#250 bunsen82

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:13 PM

 

Excellent.However, I don't recall Max Kepler taking a public stand on this episode of police misconduct.And I do not recall TD calling out Kepler for not taking a public stand.Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't want to speak for Brock or Nick and other posters, but I don't think its their full point, as to his initial post, they seem to be more upset by has lack of understanding and publicly making a sincere apology.I somewhat understand their stance, I also think Max unwittingly walked into a hornets nest and merely tried to get out of it as quickly as possible.In my opinion he doesn'tdeserve vitriol or negative response he has received.Intention is more important to me than the actual act. Max had no intention of demeaning african Americans, and to insinuate as such is short sighted.We at all times have to be educated on issues. His lack of awareness is nothing more than lack of awareness.Education on the issue is the number 1 key.Acknowledge issues and create solutions while minimizing destructive forces is our best way to move forward. 

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#251 Yossarian

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:22 PM

 

Have you turned on the news in the past week? Protests and riots have broken out in almost every major city across the country, and many across the world. This isn't about TD responding to what happened, it's about humanity responding. Kepler's insensitive remark didn't hit me in a bad way because I was upset about the situation, it hit me in bad way because the city he plays in was on fire and tearing itself apart in anguish when he made it.

 

If you think what's happening right now is solely about George Floyd, I'm afraid you are the one showing a one-dimensional viewpoint. This has been building up for a long time. This is about so much more. I thought that was beyond obvious, personally. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but did your op-ed not take aim at Max Kepler for not taking a public stand (or an incorrect one) respecting the Floyd murder, and that you were disappointed that he did not do so?The correct expression was one of outrage against police misconduct based on skin color, no?I think I got your drift right. I resent the snark about current events.  

 

What's happened in the past week has long been unacceptably so.The Noor-Damond incident is an example.None of it's right.But, no one recalls anyone at TD writing articles when Noor shot Damond about anyone being in anguish about police misconduct or interracial murder, or about ballplayers remaining silent at Noor's misconduct.And my direct experience is that until your op-ed, TD rebuked all comments it deemed political.

 

TD can change its theme anytime it likes.But, trying to replicate the Strib's op-ed page will prove to be a poor business model. 

 

 


#252 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:24 PM

I don't want to speak for Brock or Nick and other posters, but I don't think its their full point, as to his initial post, they seem to be more upset by has lack of understanding and publicly making a sincere apology. I somewhat understand their stance, I also think Max unwittingly walked into a hornets nest and merely tried to get out of it as quickly as possible. In my opinion he doesn't deserve vitriol or negative response he has received. Intention is more important to me than the actual act. Max had no intention of demeaning african Americans, and to insinuate as such is short sighted. We at all times have to be educated on issues. His lack of awareness is nothing more than lack of awareness. Education on the issue is the number 1 key. Acknowledge issues and created solutions while minimizing destructive forces is our best way to move forward.

Both Nick and I have clarified that we aren’t even angry at Kepler, we’re just pointing out that it’s a form of privilege to be able to simply say “not into politics, peace” and we should all strive to be better than that.
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#253 bunsen82

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:32 PM

 

Both Nick and I have clarified that we aren’t even angry at Kepler, we’re just pointing out that it’s a form of privilege to be able to simply say “not into politics, peace” and we should all strive to be better than that.

I will admit, I haven't read through the entire string, but I've read through the majority of it, and the initial 2 pages of response, that is not the perception that is being relayed in the messages (evidence by the response, and in my opinion it is not as much lack of individuals concern of the issues as has been portrayed).However, trying to clarify after already blasting him, is no better than him having to backtrack, or a cop trying to fix a situation after they fired first without asking questions.Personal interactions need improvement across the board - not just this board but in society.  

 

 


#254 Yossarian

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:47 PM

 

I don't want to speak for Brock or Nick and other posters, but I don't think its their full point, as to his initial post, they seem to be more upset by has lack of understanding and publicly making a sincere apology.I somewhat understand their stance, I also think Max unwittingly walked into a hornets nest and merely tried to get out of it as quickly as possible.In my opinion he doesn'tdeserve vitriol or negative response he has received.Intention is more important to me than the actual act. Max had no intention of demeaning african Americans, and to insinuate as such is short sighted.We at all times have to be educated on issues. His lack of awareness is nothing more than lack of awareness.Education on the issue is the number 1 key.Acknowledge issues and create solutions while minimizing destructive forces is our best way to move forward. 

Several years ago, ESPN became political.I turned them off.They did politics subjectively.Their views weren't original or thought-provoking, but repetitive and trite like much of the pathetically inept print and electronic media.Recently, after having just about burned its brand to ashes, ESPN chucked the political and returned to concentrating on sports.I turn them on once in a while.

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#255 bunsen82

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:53 PM

 

Several years ago, ESPN became political.I turned them off.They did politics subjectively.Their views weren't original or thought-provoking, but repetitive and trite like much of the pathetically inept print and electronic media.Recently, after having just about burned its brand to ashes, ESPN chucked the political and returned to concentrating on sports.I turn them on once in a while.

Different situation, different time.Societal issues from the pandemic to uprisings is infringing on baseball.This is a baseball topic, with one of our players.I don't agree with all of the premise, but I understand it.I've always been one, that you aren't forced to read this thread, and obviously you disagreed with the post.That is fine I can understand it, but to dismiss it all together is not improving any situation.If thats not what you come here for, open up the other 99% of posts and everyone will be in a better place once baseball hopefully opens back up again. 

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#256 ashbury

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 02:16 PM

There are those that believe it stems from a racist system that targets a particular minority because of their skin color. Others believe the problem stems from that fact that some people (and please forgive my swearing even though I know it's going to come up as an asterisk) are *******s and huge pieces of human excrement who work their way into positions of authority where their evil deeds can affect people.

Isn't the latter a good working description of how the former is implemented?

 

 

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If your attack appears to be going well, then you're in an ambush.


#257 jgfellows

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 02:26 PM

 

Both Nick and I have clarified that we aren’t even angry at Kepler, we’re just pointing out that it’s a form of privilege to be able to simply say “not into politics, peace” and we should all strive to be better than that.

 

I'm mad as hell at a lot of you from preventing change from happening

 

But you're mad as hell at a lot of us.Why is that?


#258 ashbury

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 02:36 PM

Several years ago, ESPN became political.I turned them off. 

That is, as Brock said, your "privilege." :)
 

If your attack appears to be going well, then you're in an ambush.


#259 howeda7

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 02:57 PM

 

Well, it sure pissed off the white nationalists that he was elected, and woke up and accentuated their racial agendas. But Obama didn't cause that "racial division". I guess it was caused by the majority of the American people that voted for him, both elections. Usually, when the person that gets the most votes becomes President, it is more unifying. Seemed to me to be a much more comfortable time.

The "Obama caused racial division" line seems be pushed by those who thought simply electing him meant racism was over, and it wasn't, it must be his fault for not magically "fixing" it. It's ridiculous.

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#260 TFRazor

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 04:52 PM

Isn't the latter a good working description of how the former is implemented?


Can you prove statistically that what we have is the latter causing the former? Because if not then no, it isn’t a good working description.



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