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The Marlins are Ridiculous... Or Are They? Baseball Econ 101

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#21 Top Gun

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Maybe the Twins need new ownership then.

#22 darin617

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

Because it is a private company.


Here is a really good question that cannot be answered. How can MLB teams call themselves a private company when a high percentage have their stadiums paid for with public funds(taxpayers). They should make all teams that have received public money for stadiums to open up their books and make them public to show how bad they really needed help to pay for their stadiums.

Like that would ever happen! Could you imagine how terrified owners would be if they had to show the books about how much money they really make.

#23 kab21

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:54 AM

The Twins getting a stadium isn't much different from all of the deals that are made to attract big businesses (like cheap land or major infrastructure improvements). The Twins just have more visibility.

I've said it in another thread but I don't really have a problem with what the Marlins did. They were terrible and they got rid of two BIG contracts and a guy that was a FA in a year. Some dismiss the prospects that they got back but there are a couple top 100 prospects in the deal.

It sucks that it happened a year after the Marlins opened a new stadium but most of that is due the Marlins having no plan. They just signed those two BIG contracts last season due to opening the new stadium.

#24 DaveW

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

The Twins getting a stadium isn't much different from all of the deals that are made to attract big businesses (like cheap land or major infrastructure improvements). The Twins just have more visibility.


Thank you!
This is very true and exactly spot on.

Who cares anyways? I could care less if the Pohlads make 1 dollar or 100 million dollars a year, all I care about is the team. The Pohlads have no obligation to spend X amount of revenue each yeah on players. Like any other business in America they have to make sure they spend enough to keep customers coming back though.

#25 birdwatcher

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:00 AM

If all things were fair and equal (TV and stadium revenues, etc.), and the ONLY focus was on winning the World Series, then each team would win one pennant during a thirty year cycle.

Since things are not and never will be fair and equal, exactly how often would you expect a WS pennant victory?

#26 DaveW

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:07 AM

If all things were fair and equal (TV and stadium revenues, etc.), and the ONLY focus was on winning the World Series, then each team would win one pennant during a thirty year cycle.

Since things are not and never will be fair and equal, exactly how often would you expect a WS pennant victory?

Every 20-25 years seems about right to me.

#27 darin617

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:18 AM

The Twins getting a stadium isn't much different from all of the deals that are made to attract big businesses (like cheap land or major infrastructure improvements). The Twins just have more visibility.

I've said it in another thread but I don't really have a problem with what the Marlins did. They were terrible and they got rid of two BIG contracts and a guy that was a FA in a year. Some dismiss the prospects that they got back but there are a couple top 100 prospects in the deal.

It sucks that it happened a year after the Marlins opened a new stadium but most of that is due the Marlins having no plan. They just signed those two BIG contracts last season due to opening the new stadium.


The thing that should bug you about the Marlins trading all those players is really simple, they never intended to keep any of them long term. All contracts were back loaded so Miami didn't have to pay much of their salaries and dumped them on to whoever would take them on for prospects.

#28 70charger

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

If all things were fair and equal (TV and stadium revenues, etc.), and the ONLY focus was on winning the World Series, then each team would win one pennant during a thirty year cycle.

Since things are not and never will be fair and equal, exactly how often would you expect a WS pennant victory?



That's not true. For example, there are 20 wedges on a dart board. If you threw 20 darts at it randomly, would you really expect to hit all 20 wedges?

Randomness usually doesn't look random.

#29 nicksaviking

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:12 PM

Thank you!
This is very true and exactly spot on.

Who cares anyways? I could care less if the Pohlads make 1 dollar or 100 million dollars a year, all I care about is the team. The Pohlads have no obligation to spend X amount of revenue each yeah on players. Like any other business in America they have to make sure they spend enough to keep customers coming back though.


Well which is it, do you care about the team, or do you not feel the Pohlad's are obligated to assemble a proper one?

#30 DaveW

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

Well which is it, do you care about the team, or do you not feel the Pohlad's are obligated to assemble a proper one?

I care about the team, I just have a basic understanding of how businesses work.

The "Durr durr the Pohlad's are cheap" drivel gets really old, when in fact they have shown an ability to spend over 100 million a year when they feel it's warranted, I believe a couple years ago they were one of the top 8 or 10 payrolls in all of baseball.

Good lord, people act like we are in the middle of the 1993-2000 days again, give me a break.

#31 nicksaviking

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

Right, but they are doing their damnedest to make sure having a top ten payroll is NOT warrented now or in the near future. It's unneccisarily affecting the 2013 team, so again, do you care more about having a competitive team, or do you care more about justifying the Pohlad's lawful right to not field one?

You seem to be ignoring the opposite side of the coin. If the Pohlad's have every right to lower payroll as they deem fit, why do the fans and tax payers who funded their cash cow not have the right to call into question their motives?

Edited by nicksaviking, 27 December 2012 - 04:13 PM.


#32 kab21

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

Right, but they are doing their damnedest to make sure having a top ten payroll is NOT warrented now or in the near future. It's unneccisarily affecting the 2013 team, so again, do you care more about having a competitive team, or do you care more about justifying the Pohlad's lawful right to not field one?

You seem to be ignoring the opposite side of the coin. If the Pohlad's have every right to lower payroll as they deem fit, why do the fans and tax payers who funded their cash cow not have the right to call into question their motives?


Teams get rid of aging veterans and try to limit signing aging veterans when they rebuild. That's why payroll goes down. It sucks that the Twins are bad but going nuts in FA isn't going to turn this team into a contender unless you go nuts like the Dodgers.

#33 Thrylos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

It seems like the Marlins are going to continue to be run like this until they get a new ownership group.


And the Marlins won two World Championships since the Twins won their last one...
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#34 kab21

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

And the Marlins won two World Championships since the Twins won their last one...


luck? Those teams had a good core and they knew when to throw their chips in and they got lucky. they tried a similar approach last year signing a bunch of vets and their team crashed and burned. That was their occasional go for it and now they are in terrible shape.

#35 johnnydakota

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

hi all
nice post.i like this forum very much


Welcome and Happy New Years

#36 johnnydakota

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:51 PM

Maybe the Twins need new ownership then.


Maybe? hmmmm Well they tried to move and sell the team, they tried to contract the team , then they held the fans and state hostage for a new shinny stadium. This year jim pohlad said money was no object , while Ryan was planning to reduce payroll to collect his end of the year bonus ....for reducing payroll

#37 johnnydakota

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

Every 20-25 years seems about right to me.


the babys born after our last world championship , are now bar hopping , me thinks its time for another ring soon

#38 biggentleben

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

And the Marlins won two World Championships since the Twins won their last one...


The current ownership team has not built a championship team. They've just torn one apart. They had nothing to do with 1997 or the aftermath.

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#39 twins4121

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:20 AM

We need a Mark Cuban to come sweep up the Twins in the next decade. if the NBA didn't have a cap he'd be spending like a MA-F++++, Cubs fans had some hope there for a while when speculation was swirling that he was looking into buying them

#40 old nurse

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:51 AM

We need a Mark Cuban to come sweep up the Twins in the next decade. if the NBA didn't have a cap he'd be spending like a MA-F++++, Cubs fans had some hope there for a while when speculation was swirling that he was looking into buying them


Yet the Cubs are proof that spending money does not win championships. See also the Mets.