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Marlins are Ridiculous (Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes and more)

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#21 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

It appears the Blue Jays have upped the stakes in the east. This will make life difficult for all the other teams in the division. They may not be the favorite in the east, but they certainly made themselves the equal of the Yankess and the Rays. Should make an interesting couple of weeks. This may help the Twins as Shawn Marcum was rumored to be going to the Jays and this looks like it will not happen now.


Yes, exactly right. This just adds more to the competitive balance out in the east. I hated always seeing ONLY the Yanks and the Sox at the top of that division, and now the whole division looks like any one of those teams has a good shot at the playoffs. Should make next September interesting that is for sure

#22 johnnydakota

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

Twins want to know where was T. Ryan on this deal?


amen , he was busy trying to lowball scott baker ,this just shows another reason for curly lyan to be fired , total failure to fix anything except lining the owners pockets

#23 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:49 PM

Marlins have done this before. If it is so bad for the Marlins, why is it bad for the jays?

So, one of the richest people on the planet is spending his money to win. Good for him. If you are going to ask fans to pay a lot of money, and ask tax payers to subsidize your business, you should spend some of your own money too.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#24 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

Btw, this is what bad teams should do, deal their overpriced veterans for prospects. It's how bad teams eventually get better, not by trying to be "not bad" by signing and keeping mediocre or bad players around, but by dealing them.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#25 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

Marlins have done this before. If it is so bad for the Marlins, why is it bad for the jays?

So, one of the richest people on the planet is spending his money to win. Good for him. If you are going to ask fans to pay a lot of money, and ask tax payers to subsidize your business, you should spend some of your own money too.


Exactly right. Wish Pohlad would do this. Just for not as much money as the Blue Jays just spent.

Edited by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS, 13 November 2012 - 07:53 PM.


#26 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

Twins want to know where was T. Ryan on this deal?


amen , he was busy trying to lowball scott baker ,this just shows another reason for curly lyan to be fired , total failure to fix anything except lining the owners pockets


This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

#27 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

What if they Marlins had dealt Buerhle for a good minor leaguer or two? What if they then dealt Johnson for a MLB player or two? What if they then made a third trade, and dealt Reyes for 1-2 MLB players and a prospect? People would be saying they had made three good deals, gotten younger and maybe better, and freed up money to re-sign Stanton and maybe add a FA or two.....but because it is one trade, it somehow bad?

People on this board were debating if either pitcher was worth a legit prospect or not, given their salaries....now they get real value in return, and it is a bad idea? From a baseball perspective, putting aside the stadium just being put in (you really should not cut salary in the first few years of a new stadium, it should go up a lot, otherwise why get one?), isn't it a good baseball trade?

That said, I'd 100% rather have an owner like the Jays have....one that wants to pay the price to win.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#28 Willihammer

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

Its more like $35m in added payroll for 2013, by my count. A deal like this does make you wonder, at least, how did it go down? I would love to know.

#29 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

What if they Marlins had dealt Buerhle for a good minor leaguer or two? What if they then dealt Johnson for a MLB player or two? What if they then made a third trade, and dealt Reyes for 1-2 MLB players and a prospect? People would be saying they had made three good deals, gotten younger and maybe better, and freed up money to re-sign Stanton and maybe add a FA or two.....but because it is one trade, it somehow bad?


Yeah, that is exactly right. Based on what we know, they added a headache, a utility infielder, one OK prospect and one prospect who wasn't a top 30. That's very different than the scenario that you laid out above.

#30 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

What if they Marlins had dealt Buerhle for a good minor leaguer or two? What if they then dealt Johnson for a MLB player or two? What if they then made a third trade, and dealt Reyes for 1-2 MLB players and a prospect? People would be saying they had made three good deals, gotten younger and maybe better, and freed up money to re-sign Stanton and maybe add a FA or two.....but because it is one trade, it somehow bad?


Yeah, that is exactly right. Based on what we know, they added a headache, a utility infielder, one OK prospect and one prospect who wasn't a top 30. That's very different than the scenario that you laid out above.


Exactly a very different scenario. You hit this one right on the head Seth. Redmond deserves better than this. I wonder if he knew this might happen when he became their manager? Either way it seems like the Marlins did not want to go through all the headache of multiple trades, and just do a straight salary dump, or else like mike wants wins said they would have done multiple trades.

#31 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

That's not what Hardballtalk said. They said that if you take out the stadium and impact on other free agents, that it was probably a good trade for Miami. I don't know anything about what they got, frankly. I am going by that one article. And wouldn't it be worth just getting rid of Buerhle? People said here he was worth nothing in return, nothing, because of his age and salary.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#32 Chris in Osaka

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

This makes the Orioles the best bet for the cellar in the east.

#33 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

Plus, why is no on talking about the Jays side? They are spending money and trying to win. That is awesome ownership. Awesome. Wish we had that here. An owner that would go get two starting pitchers and a potential all star SS. Maybe we do, maybe they'll go out and get some good to great players. We'll see. It has never happened in their history, but maybe this year is different.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#34 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

This makes the Orioles the best bet for the cellar in the east.


Probably, they had a lot of guys play out their minds last year. Mostly pitching wise.

#35 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:34 PM

Plus, why is no on talking about the Jays side? They are spending money and trying to win. That is awesome ownership. Awesome. Wish we had that here. An owner that would go get two starting pitchers and a potential all star SS. Maybe we do, maybe they'll go out and get some good to great players. We'll see. It has never happened in their history, but maybe this year is different.


I hear what your saying, it would be nice for the Twins to go against the grain and go out and sign some guys but realistically, they probably wont. All we as Twins fans can do is hope they prove us wrong and spend some money, although spending money does not always equal success.

#36 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

Agreed, spending money does not guarantee success. If you spend it well, it should increase the likelihood of success though. That's all anyone can do, work to increase the likelihood of the outcome you want.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#37 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

This makes the Orioles the best bet for the cellar in the east.


Probably, they had a lot of guys play out their minds last year. Mostly pitching wise.


True, but they are adding one of the best minor league pitchers in the game to their staff next year. But yes, I would think they will be worse.

This may also make it more likely that TB blows up what they have. Now they have to compete with Toronto, Bos, NYY....maybe they look in the mirror and deal a couple of guys to reload. Maybe. Heck, their fans deserve that.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#38 mbents

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

How about the Marlins' payroll in 2013? Dan Brooks is saying on Twitter he's heard it could be anywhere from about 12.5 million to 25 million. Wow. Just wow.

#39 jorgenswest

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

The value of prospects and young under control players has never been greater.

The value of a veteran has declined.

The only the Marlins unload a few of those bad contracts is to include others that are reasonable in the deal. They couldn't get anyone to take Buerhle unless they gave up something else.

It isn't going to be easy to get significant value for Morneau. The Twins need to buy prospects on the form of paying a good deal of his salary next year.

#40 Rosterman

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

Hummmm...who would the Twins have traded. Dozier, Blackburn, and what 5-6 prospects. Would a righty and lefty starter, a backup catcher, a shortstop, and a spare infielder have made the Twins more competitive?
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