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I think that is it about time that the Twins moved out of Rochester

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#1 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:05 PM

It is well known that the management, fans, media of Rochester, NY do not really care about the Twins and their behavior has ranged from apathetic to totally hostile the past few years.

For me this broke the camel's back. They are selling Yankees' merchandise not only at the fan shop at the stadium (I kinda get that, they will be playing some games there) but online from the Twins' affiliate official site.

I don't know how you, or the Twins' management feel, but this really p*ssed me off big time.
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#2 gunnarthor

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

I think the Twins like Rochester because it has a major airport in it. I don't think they much care about what the owners do to make money in it. If it makes you feel better, when I went to a Trenton Thunder game (AA Yankee team) a few years back, they were selling Phillies merchandise and Garciaparra jerseys (used to be a Red Sox affiliate).

#3 cr9617

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

Are you aware of how bad Rochester's record has been the last 2 seasons? Why would they care?

They don't owe the Twins any favors, you know....

#4 okobojicat

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:12 PM

Most teams have really tried to bring their minor league teams close so that they can partner in marketing terms. However, there are no "decent" sized cities near MSP without a AAA team already. Des Moines and Omaha already have teams. Sioux Falls, Rochester, Duluth, St Cloud and Mankato aren't really big enough for your normal AAA size city. But then I thought about the Mariners and they have their AAA team Tacoma pretty much in the same metropolitan district. Its a great way to build a regional consciousness of a team. I would put the AAA team in Bloomington, perhaps in a new stadium down by the Mall or near the river. There really isn't a lot of stealing of ticket sales as people go to the games for different experiences. I do think the St Paul Saints would be pretty upset. Any other ideas? Where would you put the AAA Twins.....if you could put them anywhere?

#5 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:15 PM

Are you aware of how bad Rochester's record has been the last 2 seasons? Why would they care?

They don't owe the Twins any favors, you know....


Last time I checked they had a contract with the Twins (and not the Yankees) and they are an affiliate and not an independent minor league club. As as an affiliate they should be respecting the hand that butter's their bread... If they were an independent league club, it would had been a different story.
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#6 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:16 PM

Any other ideas? Where would you put the AAA Twins.....if you could put them anywhere?


Rochester.... MN
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#7 Sbb33

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:20 PM

I agree with getting out of Rochester! I cant say Ive ever been there personally, but I have talked to a few players and their wives and apparently its a dump of a city. One of the wives told me she didnt even feel safe taking a cab to watch games there. I think the organization should get them out of there if they care enough. Get them somewhere a bit warmer. Players dont hit well in cold temps and dont like playing in cold temps PERIOD!

#8 Mr. Ed

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:35 PM

Rochester.... MN


I just don't think this area would support a AAA team.

They would need a better facility. It's less than 90 minutes from TField, and I would be surprised if the Twins would want that, taking away from their own attendance.

I would love to see them in this area, but doubt it could happen. Somewhere closer, for sure. Too bad Des Moines is so entrenched with the Cubs.

#9 Mr. Ed

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:37 PM

And I agree Thrylos. Mandelaro writes some real hack jobs over the Twins, and I sure wish they'd find somewhere else.

#10 whydidnt

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:41 PM

Well, I think Rochester is Ok, it would be nice if it was someplace closer, but I'm glad our affiliate is in the IL instead of the PCL, with it's inflated batting lines. I think back in the 70s Toledo was our affiliate for a few years, and that might be as close as we could get in the IL right now, but they are a nicer fit with Detroit.

#11 jtrinaldi

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:48 PM

They have to sell SWB stuff because SWB wouldn't be able to make any concession money without having a place to play (renovations)
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#12 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

They have to sell SWB stuff because SWB wouldn't be able to make any concession money without having a place to play (renovations)


I see it selling it at the ballpark when SWB plays there. But they should be selling it at the SWB web site and not the Red Wings' web site. And I am not sure how much of a cut SWB will be getting anyways...
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#13 Nicholas Mueller

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

I read somewhere where they might align with the Manchester, NH affiliate. Personally, I would not mind this since I used to live there. Although, I'm not sure if Manchester supports their minor league team. If the AAA affiliate was moved closer to MN, they almost certainly would have to change leagues as well. I would think that they would play in the American Conference and play against Chicago (Iowa) and St. Louis's affiliate (Memphis) If the Twins were to have an affiliate in MN, could they align with the St. Paul Saints?

#14 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

If the Twins were to have an affiliate in MN, could they align with the St. Paul Saints?


That would not be realistic for several reasons:

- The Saints and the Twins are in direct competition for ticket sales
- The Saints are in an independent league and would need to join a AAA league, which would mean that a AAA league (either Pacific or International) would need to expand or lose a team

I just don't see it happening.
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#15 Nicholas Mueller

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

That would not be realistic for several reasons:

- The Saints are in an independent league and would need to join a AAA league, which would mean that a AAA league (either Pacific or International) would need to expand or lose a team


Point taken;however, didn't the Mets disband a couple of their minor league teams? I do wonder what the Twins plan on doing after their lease ends with Rochester, NY.

#16 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

Point taken;however, didn't the Mets disband a couple of their minor league teams? I do wonder what the Twins plan on doing after their lease ends with Rochester, NY.


The Mets practically combined a couple of low level league teams by getting rid of their high level Rookie team (the equivalent of Elizabethton for the Twins) and combining it with their short season A league team in Brooklyn. The Twins cannot be without a AAA team.
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#17 Jim Crikket

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

The geography just doesn't add up for putting another AAA team in the center of the country. Des Moines and Omaha are already isolated from the rest of the PCL and the IL doesn't extend west of Michigan and Indianapolis. Travel costs are a huge part of the expense of maintaining a AAA team. IF the Twins really wanted to investigate a move of their AAA team closer to Minnesota, though, there would be options. Setting aside the fact that moving to a community that doesn't already have a AAA team means a community that currently does will lose their team (and the politics of such an event), putting a team in Dayton OH might be worth considering. Their Midwest League team drew over 8,000 fans per game last year... which is better than most IL teams did. I'm not sure how Columbus would feel about sharing their state with another AAA team, but they obviously don't compete much for the same fans at this point anyway. All of that said, I really don't have a problem with Rochester selling Yankee merchandise. Running a minor league baseball team is usually a break-even proposition, at best. The Twins haven't done Rochester any favors lately in terms of the talent (or lack thereof) they've sent there to play. The result has been abysmal attendance, which means low ticket and merchandise sales revenue. They've got an opportunity this year, because of SWB's stadium situation, to make a few extra bucks and there's absolutely no reason, in my mind, why they shouldn't do it. The agreement between the Twins and Rochester ends after this season. I'm sure both organizations are looking at other options and they'll both make whatever decisions are in their best interests. Neither of them owe the other any more than that.
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#18 Jim Crikket

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:41 PM

The Mets practically combined a couple of low level league teams by getting rid of their high level Rookie team (the equivalent of Elizabethton for the Twins) and combining it with their short season A league team in Brooklyn. The Twins cannot be without a AAA team.


People in Rochester would probably tell you that the Twins haven't fielded a AAA team in at least a couple of years.
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#19 Mr. Ed

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:16 PM

Add to this what I've heard about AA, and NB potentially hooking up with the Mets after this year, and it will be an interesting time in the minors.

#20 Mr. Ed

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:18 PM

People in Rochester would probably tell you that the Twins haven't fielded a AAA team in at least a couple of years.


Rochester fans also complain frequently about how the star Twins,for the most part, haven't come up to rehab with them.

A lot of unhappiness there. Not sure who they'd take to make them happy. The Orioles talent dried up,and the org and community started complaining,leading to BALT leaving.

#21 Esoteric Ball Guy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:28 PM

I've always thought that Rochester was too far away geographically, and would love to see them move closer. I'd bet Duluth could handle a AAA team. This summer I'll be heading to Rochester for the first time so I'll reserve my judgement on the city til then, but it's a shame the closest minor league affiliate we have now is a 7-8 hour drive away.

#22 Jeff P

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

Would Sioux Falls work? They already have a team that plays in the Northern league or whatever it is called now so they might be happy with what they got. Jeff

#23 davidjcampbell

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:42 AM

I've been to Rochester a couple of times to visit friends. It is a larger place than you might think. In the 'metro area' there are over a million people. MN doesn't have anything like that outside of MSP. If there is to be a change I could see clubs swapping cities. I know Buffalo, NY swapped Indians for Mets starting in 2009. That seems to happen all the time, you just have to see what other club has a contract up at the same time as the Twins. I have tried to look for this online for a couple of cities but can't seem to find the info. Rochester isn't a bad city, I think when the product on the field is bad it makes it hard to get the family together to go watch that. Like the St Paul Saints. The stadium is pretty nice and they had a fun atmosphere when I was at a game there last summer. The city is also a little depressed due to Kodak's troubles. But they have other large employers and universities. The city should be able to support a club.

#24 James

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

Dare I say this, but how about a team in Madison, WI? It'd be close enough to the Twin Cities, and is big enough to support a team. They already have a team in the Northwoods league, so something would have to be worked out there as well. Just a random thought.

#25 2wins87

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:35 AM

Wow a LOT of misconceptions here. I've been living in Rochester for the last few years attending graduate school here. So I'm sure I have a better handle on the city than any of the previous commenters. Ok, so it's not nearly as great as Minneapolis/St. Paul (though not many places are). I'm not going to say I love it, but it's really not that bad. It's certainly has gone through a decline, which actually started a while ago. It was once one of America's richest cities per capita when George Eastman was still around and Eastman-Kodak was one of the most innovative companies in the world. It was hit hard by the shift to global manufacturing and also Kodak's bungling of the switch to digital photo technology. The city is still a shell of what it used to be, but it actually fared well through the last recession, better than any other city in New York state. This is in part due to the investments in higher education made a long time ago by Eastman, and the history as a technology center, which has led to a reasonable number of small tech start-ups often founded by ex Kodak, Xerox, and Bausch & Lomb employees. If anything it's getting better now. As with any city that has gone through industrial decline, there are certainly some troubled spots. But I certainly wouldn't classify it as a dump. I don't plan on staying here after grad school, but it hasn't been terrible living here. And with a million people in the metro area, it's not a booming city but there aren't many bigger markets for a AAA team out there. Certainly not Rochester, MN or Duluth. The Red Wings' franchise has gone through a number of affiliation changes, but has been in Rochester for over a hundred years, giving it one of the longest histories in any one city of any franchise at any level. This, I think, is a point of pride for some fans of the team, who actually care more about the team than who they are affiliated with. With what the Twins have given the team over the last couple years it's no surprise that some fans would be a bit antsy. But I think it's a good affiliation for the Twins to have, and just going by feel I'd say I probably see about as much Twins paraphernalia around the city as I do Yankees gear, which is unexpected in any city in New York where the Yankees have such a huge fan base. So I have to think that being a Twins affiliate makes at least some difference. I'd have to think that if anything, the Rochester ownership would dump the Twins affiliation for another team before the Twins chose another affiliate. But the franchise certainly won't go anywhere, and I at least hope it keeps its affiliation with the Twins a little longer so I can see the Twins' prospects come through while I'm here.

#26 davidjcampbell

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

2wins87, thanks for bringing a dose of reality - you were able to bring up a lot of points I was not able to articulate when I read the thread just after waking up this morning.

I certainly agree with your point about a large market - over a million in a team's market is great. Central NY decidedly Yankee territory in my opinion (I spent 4 years at school in Ithaca, NY - 90 miles from ROC).

One quibble - according to wiki "The Red Wings were an affiliate of the St. Louis Cardinals for 32 years (1929–1960), then spent 42 years (1961–2002) as a farm club of the Baltimore Orioles before moving on to the Twins in 2003." I would not say this is "a number of affiliation changes" - certainly not recently.

Do we think the franchise would give up the Twins after only 10 years?

One additional point to think of when we are considering other potential cities - Delta has multiple flights between MSP and ROC (usually with a layover in Detroit), that has to be worth something to have players just a short flight away.

#27 jtrinaldi

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

Dare I say this, but how about a team in Madison, WI? It'd be close enough to the Twin Cities, and is big enough to support a team. They already have a team in the Northwoods league, so something would have to be worked out there as well. Just a random thought.

There was a thought of Moving Beloit to Madison in the early 2000's but because Beloit, like the Packers are a community ran team, the vote to move Beloit was shut down at the first town hall meeting about it. The Midwest league offices are in Beloit as well, so that would screw everything up. Most of the Madison people just come down to Beloit anyways is only an hour drive. The funding for Beloit's new stadium is getting closer. George Spelius has said at Beloit games that he won't be satisfied as a commisioner, and a part owner of the Beloit Snappers until Beloit gets a new stadium.
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#28 ossieO

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

This discussion reminds me of a recent Randball blog.
http://www.startribu.../137976943.html

#29 2wins87

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:55 AM

One quibble - according to wiki "The Red Wings were an affiliate of the St. Louis Cardinals for 32 years (1929–1960), then spent 42 years (1961–2002) as a farm club of the Baltimore Orioles before moving on to the Twins in 2003." I would not say this is "a number of affiliation changes" - certainly not recently.



In my defense, the last time I checked, two was still a number. But yeah, I was going off memory and thought there was another one or two in there. But my point is that the franchise has a long history in it's own right, which makes them a good club to be affiliated with IMO.


One additional point to think of when we are considering other potential cities - Delta has multiple flights between MSP and ROC (usually with a layover in Detroit), that has to be worth something to have players just a short flight away.


They also have had at least one direct flight per day for at least the last year. I've gotten one for around $270 which I was quite happy about.

#30 go4phan

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

Do you think a city in either North or South Dakota could support a team? I know there are a lot of diehard fans in that region.