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Article: Gathering The Hot Stove Pitching Rumors

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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...r-The-Hot-Stove

#2 johnnydakota

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

so terry lyan is still living on his 1 good trade(or lucky trade i claim)
he took a young all star offensive high average with pop and solid defensive catcher who also was left handed and traded for a #2 starter and a soft tossing AAA and a A pitcher...and this is what the legend of curly lyan is built on? 18 years is enough, he would trade an oil well for a dried mummy fart

my favorite twins moment is the day the 3 stooges get there walking papers

#3 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:31 AM

I dont remember AJ bein a solid defensive C but who was the soft tossing AAA pitcher....not Bonser, as he threw low-mid 90s. No way to call that lucky as they immediately inserted Nathan as the closer.
I would hope that if Wash is still interested in Denard Span, that we would look around Ross Detwiller

#4 RegFCat

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

so terry lyan is still living on his 1 good trade(or lucky trade i claim)
he took a young all star offensive high average with pop and solid defensive catcher who also was left handed and traded for a #2 starter and a soft tossing AAA and a A pitcher...and this is what the legend of curly lyan is built on? 18 years is enough, he would trade an oil well for a dried mummy fart

my favorite twins moment is the day the 3 stooges get there walking papers




johnnydakota ... maybe football is your sport.

#5 JB_Iowa

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:23 AM

The Devil Rays?????

You're showing your age, John.

#6 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

Great article. It's nice to see all these rumors rounded up and listed together.

#7 mbents

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:43 AM

The Devil Rays?????

You're showing your age, John.


I think that's a fine, payable to Joe Maddon.

#8 Curt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:10 AM

Nice summary.

#9 Steve Penz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:13 AM

I dont remember AJ bein a solid defensive C but who was the soft tossing AAA pitcher....not Bonser, as he threw low-mid 90s. No way to call that lucky as they immediately inserted Nathan as the closer.
I would hope that if Wash is still interested in Denard Span, that we would look around Ross Detwiller


Detwiller? Interesting. That seems a lot like getting Hellickson but one year older with stats that are not quite as good. I do like the idea of acquiring a quality pitcher who is not yet 27. Neither of those guys are aces but having them in our rotation would likely go a long way.

#10 trader t

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:40 AM

do they have any of those proverbial baseball nursing homes in Indian Wells? If they do, Mr. Ryan will be in 7th heaven. Lots of innings eaters with eras over 4, which is so important for a smallball team with a below average batting average. You can do it mr. Ryan. I know it's hard to lose 90+ games 3 years in a row, but I have confidence
in you that you can

#11 Mr. Ed

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:44 AM

Mariners allegedly talking to Twins/Royals about pitching for Wil Myers/Hicks/Revere

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

#12 ericchri

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

I'd rather let them have Revere than Hicks, his upside is a lot higher than Revere's. But we have plenty of options to get through the next few years waiting for Buxton if it takes Hicks to get good pitching. Anyone offering pitching for any of our outfielders should get serious consideration.

#13 Kwak

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

i'm curious as why there aren't any rumors about SEA?

#14 weinshie

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:20 AM

I'd rather let them have Revere than Hicks, his upside is a lot higher than Revere's. But we have plenty of options to get through the next few years waiting for Buxton if it takes Hicks to get good pitching. Anyone offering pitching for any of our outfielders should get serious consideration.

First off, Hicks hasn't even reached AAA. Revere's proven he can hit big-league pitching.
Revere's D is the best--far better than Span's. Also, on the basepaths, he forces pitchers to pay attention to him and makes Mauer better. Mauer was a .270 hitter with a propensity for double plays prior to Revere. When pitchers had to respect Revere and toss more fastballs to Joe, the DPs went WAY down and the average increased. (Mind you, I'm not attributing ALL of Mauer's success to Revere, but the speed does fit well into the lineup...)

#15 Kwak

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

I'd rather let them have Revere than Hicks, his upside is a lot higher than Revere's. But we have plenty of options to get through the next few years waiting for Buxton if it takes Hicks to get good pitching. Anyone offering pitching for any of our outfielders should get serious consideration.

First off, Hicks hasn't even reached AAA. Revere's proven he can hit big-league pitching.
Revere's D is the best--far better than Span's. Also, on the basepaths, he forces pitchers to pay attention to him and makes Mauer better. Mauer was a .270 hitter with a propensity for double plays prior to Revere. When pitchers had to respect Revere and toss more fastballs to Joe, the DPs went WAY down and the average increased. (Mind you, I'm not attributing ALL of Mauer's success to Revere, but the speed does fit well into the lineup...)


Mauer has consistently hit better than .300 for years--long before Revere. Revere isn't better defensively than Span. Twins' need for SP is so high that if someone wants Revere--his replacements already exist, and they project far higher.

#16 ericchri

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:48 AM

I'd rather let them have Revere than Hicks, his upside is a lot higher than Revere's. But we have plenty of options to get through the next few years waiting for Buxton if it takes Hicks to get good pitching. Anyone offering pitching for any of our outfielders should get serious consideration.

First off, Hicks hasn't even reached AAA. Revere's proven he can hit big-league pitching.
Revere's D is the best--far better than Span's. Also, on the basepaths, he forces pitchers to pay attention to him and makes Mauer better. Mauer was a .270 hitter with a propensity for double plays prior to Revere. When pitchers had to respect Revere and toss more fastballs to Joe, the DPs went WAY down and the average increased. (Mind you, I'm not attributing ALL of Mauer's success to Revere, but the speed does fit well into the lineup...)


I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying about Revere (though I think you're a bit off about Mauer). Mostly I just feel like we've seen about the best of Ben Revere we're going to see. He doesn't have enough pop in his bat and he doesn't walk, meaning his OBP and OPS are never going to be anything special, even with his fairly high BA. That doesn't mean I think Revere is no good, but I think Hicks profiles to be a better overall player. The way I understand it he's just as fast, more patient at the plate, has more power potential, and though I'm not hugely concerned with it he has a much stronger arm. Yes, Hicks could flame out, but somebody from our glut of outfielders has to go, and I'd rather keep the one with the highest upside, even if there's still some chance at him washing out. Just a personal preference. We'd be replacing Revere's bat with Parmelee's at that point, and while obviously a different player, he might add another power hitter to the lineup which has potential to score a lot of runs, just in a different way than Revere's presence does.

With the assumption we'd keep Span if we traded Revere, we've still got time to let Hicks develop. Long-term Buxton "theoretically" has the highest upside of all of the numerous CF guys in our system, so if we trade Hicks, that's fine too. I'll be a little disappointed, but I'll just be happy to see them cleaning a CF out of our roster for something of value. I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle was more interested in Hicks than Revere (the implication is there based on him being named first), but I'm just some schmoe on a message board, not a GM.

#17 mnfanforlife

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:08 AM

I agree Revere has his limitations with his lack of power. But this is a guy that could hit 20 triples some year. No joke. He has the speed to do it. Hicks has a higher ceiling because he plays awesome D (like Revere) but Hicks has a cannon for an arm, where Revere has a mid-70's velocity from the outfield. Hicks is learning to steal more and more bases, so he could replace Revere immediately in the 2-hole if Revere were dealt to Seattle. (lets hope we do a deal with the Mariners for one of their top teir pitching prospects!)

#18 Steve Lein

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

I agree Revere has his limitations with his lack of power. But this is a guy that could hit 20 triples some year. No joke. He has the speed to do it. H


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Doesn't matter how fast you are when you only hit a ball further than 300 feet when there's a blue moon, if we're talking triples. Revere had 20 extra base hits total this year between AAA and MLB, and has only had over 20 XBH's in a season once in his career, at Beloit in 2008 when he hit everything thrown at him. You should be applying this statement to Hicks, who actually can and does hit the ball into gaps, and some say he's faster than Revere over distance (like going 1st to 3rd, and long runs after fly balls in the OF). And this is coming from a guy who is a big fan of Revere as well, but as you said, he has his limitations.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#19 Willihammer

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

I started making a calculator for measuring probable outcomes of at bats based on zone discipline and count, and BABIP on those counts, and whether a hitter has a green light or red light on 2-0, 3-0, and 3-1. I am stuck. Maybe someone who is good with probabilities can look at this and fill in the blanks? Any help would be appreciated:

https://docs.google....ODRXYkk5ZjBFem8

I think its fairly obvious what I'm trying to do, but if not, pm me.

#20 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

I started making a calculator for measuring probable outcomes of at bats based on zone discipline and count, and BABIP on those counts, and whether a hitter has a green light or red light on 2-0, 3-0, and 3-1. I am stuck. Maybe someone who is good with probabilities can look at this and fill in the blanks? Any help would be appreciated:

https://docs.google....ODRXYkk5ZjBFem8

I think its fairly obvious what I'm trying to do, but if not, pm me.


Good Lord that is ambitiously awesome. I wish the Twins front office had the foresight to hire someone like you and whoever you find to finish your equation.

#21 johnnydakota

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

so terry lyan is still living on his 1 good trade(or lucky trade i claim)
he took a young all star offensive high average with pop and solid defensive catcher who also was left handed and traded for a #2 starter and a soft tossing AAA and a A pitcher...and this is what the legend of curly lyan is built on? 18 years is enough, he would trade an oil well for a dried mummy fart

my favorite twins moment is the day the 3 stooges get there walking papers




johnnydakota ... maybe football is your sport.

ok so in 18 years he makes 1 lucky trade and is still living on that ? wow what has he done for us lately?

#22 johnnydakota

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

I dont remember AJ bein a solid defensive C but who was the soft tossing AAA pitcher....not Bonser, as he threw low-mid 90s. No way to call that lucky as they immediately inserted Nathan as the closer.
I would hope that if Wash is still interested in Denard Span, that we would look around Ross Detwiller

gee i remember 91-93,nathan was a quality starter, but now a dam fine closer, still here is a young left handed hitting catcher...
the only reason he was traded was to make room for joe...so after 18 years terry( im not )lyan , has made what a hand full of trades?and most we have been bent over on ....time for the 3 stooges to go

#23 ThePuck

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

Nathan was a reliever his last year with San Fran...pitched 78 innings, had an ERA under 3.00, had more Ks than IP and had a WHIP a hair over 1.000. The Twins got him and made them their closer, but it's not like there were no signs he'd excel doing that based on what he had already done

#24 old nurse

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:13 AM

I dont remember AJ bein a solid defensive C but who was the soft tossing AAA pitcher....not Bonser, as he threw low-mid 90s. No way to call that lucky as they immediately inserted Nathan as the closer.
I would hope that if Wash is still interested in Denard Span, that we would look around Ross Detwiller

gee i remember 91-93,nathan was a quality starter, but now a dam fine closer, still here is a young left handed hitting catcher...
the only reason he was traded was to make room for joe...so after 18 years terry( im not )lyan , has made what a hand full of trades?and most we have been bent over on ....time for the 3 stooges to go


What trade can you post on with some sort of statistical that Ryan has made that was horrible? More blah blah blah no proof of what you say.