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Thor done for the year

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#1 old nurse

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:01 PM

The trades that you did not make

http://www.startribu...gery/569067112/

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#2 ewen21

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:09 PM

Looks like I was WRONG to suggest we trade Buxton for Syndergaard.Then again, Buxton has not exactly been a monument to consistency and health.

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#3 DocBauer

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 07:01 PM

IMHO, he reminds me of Archer to this point in his career. Not directly but similar. He's out up some nice numbers, some great SO numbers and some amazing moments, but never quite put it all together yet. Injuries have been a factor, of course. Now don't get me wrong, he is a tantalizing arm still filled with potential and I would have loved to have him in a Twins uniform for him to reach his full potential!

I think 2019 may have been his best season to date. And he's young enough to recover from this and still have an amazing career. And I wish him all the best in his recovery back to 100%! But it does give you a quick pause to reflect his injury doesn't reflect on the Twins.
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#4 h2oface

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 12:15 AM

Don't miss Heezy1323's timely article on the TJ surgery.....  

http://twinsdaily.co...ion-techniques/

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#5 rdehring

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:02 AM

Another example, along with Sale, why it doesn't make sense to either sign or give up too much in a trade for top pitchers.Hundreds of millions of dollars over 7-8 years can kill any team other than the chosen few.Trading multiple top player/prospects can do the same.

 

Really like what the Twins have done to set their pitching staff for 2020.Now should Berrios take another baby step, lets get him signed for the next 5 or 6 years at reasonable dollars.

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#6 ewen21

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:10 AM

 

Another example, along with Sale, why it doesn't make sense to either sign or give up too much in a trade for top pitchers.Hundreds of millions of dollars over 7-8 years can kill any team other than the chosen few.  

If you want to win now and need to land "an ace" via a trade then it will cost 2 of your top 3 prospects.It really is that simple for the Twins

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#7 Shaitan

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 10:02 AM

 

Another example, along with Sale, why it doesn't make sense to either sign or give up too much in a trade for top pitchers.Hundreds of millions of dollars over 7-8 years can kill any team other than the chosen few.Trading multiple top player/prospects can do the same.

 

Really like what the Twins have done to set their pitching staff for 2020.Now should Berrios take another baby step, lets get him signed for the next 5 or 6 years at reasonable dollars.

 

If Cole is injured, no team other the Yankees could afford that financial loss.

 

That said, it really is a fine line. What is "too much"? That's in the eye of the beholder, as you suggest by mentioning a Berrios extension. But why would Berrios sign a "reasonable" extension when he knows he can break the bank in FA?

 

I agree that it's unfeasible for the Twins to ever give a long-term (5 years+) contract to a FA pitcher because of the risk. But hopefully something will change in insurance policies or revenue sharing that somehow changes that. It's probably wishful thinking. But for now the Twins have to focus on developing pitchers, which isn't a bad strategy at all. For every Verlander and Scherzer, there are more Archers and Kazmirs and Lirianos who peak for 2-3 seasons and fade (or suffer injuries).

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#8 gil4

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 10:58 AM

 

 But why would Berrios sign a "reasonable" extension when he knows he can break the bank in FA?

Because he's one tweak in his elbow away from not breaking the bank, and he's not a free agent for three years. Every pitcher is a ticking time bomb.

It's like that Deal or No Deal game show. One big number is on the board, but there area lot of little numbers too. Do you want to mitigate the risk and take what the banker is offering?The teams usually offer a sweeter deal than the game show does.

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#9 rdehring

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 12:10 PM

 

If you want to win now and need to land "an ace" via a trade then it will cost 2 of your top 3 prospects.It really is that simple for the Twins

And count me among those who believe that is too much for this franchise to pay.Although Buxton also misses too many games, think where we would be had they traded him and another top prospect to the Mets for Syndergaard?

 

Means they need to find another way to win.Personally, hoping like heck they have found it with a more than potent lineup and a very deep pitching staff.All they need is one of those guys from Berrios, Odorizzi, Maeta or Hill to step up and be that stopper the last half of the season and the playoffs.

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#10 tony&rodney

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 05:31 PM

Don't forget (as long as we are being positive) - here come the young guns: Randy Dobnak, Lewis Thorpe, Jordan Balazovik, Jhoan Duran, Blayne Enlow, Edwar Colina, Matt Canterino ... 

We can only hope, right?

Besides, at this point it's "Who's Thor?"

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#11 ewen21

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 05:34 PM

 

And count me among those who believe that is too much for this franchise to pay.  Although Buxton also misses too many games, think where we would be had they traded him and another top prospect to the Mets for Syndergaard?

 

Means they need to find another way to win.Personally, hoping like heck they have found it with a more than potent lineup and a very deep pitching staff.All they need is one of those guys from Berrios, Odorizzi, Maeta or Hill to step up and be that stopper the last half of the season and the playoffs.

If the underlined is a default position then I have a problem with it.

 

When a team is relatively young and very close, why are we worried about the farm?Why not take the risk and go for it?It is far more risky going the free agent route to get top quality (and throwing hundreds of millions away).

 

I don't disagree with one bit of the second paragraph. I just don't like the hardline "we can't mortgage the future" junk.Sounds like Terry Ryan redux.


#12 PDX Twin

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:27 PM

 

Besides, at this point it's "Who's Thor?"

 

Is that a response to "knock knock"? :)

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It's great to get out of the cellar ... as long as you bring something with you.


#13 Tomj14

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 09:25 PM

 

 Although Buxton also misses too many games, think where we would be had they traded him and another top prospect to the Mets for Syndergaard?

 

 

Without trade the Twins got swept by the Yanks, if they would have traded for him, no one knows what would have happened.
 

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#14 ewen21

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 06:12 AM

 

Without trade the Twins got swept by the Yanks, if they would have traded for him, no one knows what would have happened.
 

These people are essentially saying is you don't ever trade prospects to get pitching.Until the statement I responded to gets amended or re-explained that seems to be the default stance for a lot of folks here.I don't get it.When you have a team with plenty of young players in the nucleus and you are a playoff contender, why are we concerned about the guys in the low minors?Use them as assets to help out the big club in order to push us over the hump.This team has NEVER had the sense or the guts to try it and that might just be a reason why this team has not been taken seriously in the playoffs.It's like they play to get to the playoffs and ...…………..game over, we did it!

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#15 Tomj14

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 06:49 AM

 

These people are essentially saying is you don't ever trade prospects to get pitching.Until the statement I responded to gets amended or re-explained that seems to be the default stance for a lot of folks here.I don't get it.When you have a team with plenty of young players in the nucleus and you are a playoff contender, why are we concerned about the guys in the low minors?Use them as assets to help out the big club in order to push us over the hump.This team has NEVER had the sense or the guts to try it and that might just be a reason why this team has not been taken seriously in the playoffs.It's like they play to get to the playoffs and ...…………..game over, we did it!

completely agree with everything you said. Maybe the Twins trade for Thor, they win game one against the Yanks, and that changes the hitters mindsets and they go on to beat the Yanks and possibly the next series as well, heck maybe if that drives them to the World Series. I mean Thor, Berrios and Odo could have done that right?

and the Twins would be sitting here with their star pitcher having TJ surgery but also a championship.

Or they trade for Thor and still get swept.

As of right now I would still be happier if they traded for Thor and they got swept and he has TJ, then not have traded for anybody and got swept.

 

I will add that Gov Walz yesterday said that the peak of the virus will hit the state of MN in about 11 weeks (which is June) and that stadiums could be set up as hospitals, meaning baseball isn't starting anytime soon, so they basically Thor won't really be missing much actual baseball.


#16 The Wise One

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 07:20 AM

 

Without trade the Twins got swept by the Yanks, if they would have traded for him, no one knows what would have happened.
 

Who knows?The last 4 games he pitched last year he was giving up 4 runs a game. He was cooked. The likely outcome was no different than the actual one. Syndergaard was pitching as damaged goods. No amount of romanticism is going to change that.

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#17 Tomj14

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 08:09 AM

 

 No amount of romanticism is going to change that.

So people are allowed to romanticize about prospects and how they will save the future, but you can't about a guy that in his last start pitched 7 innings gave up 5 hits, walked 2, struck out 9 and gave up 3 runs to a Braves team, got it.

My whole point above was we have no idea what the outcome of trading for Thor was last year, but we do know the outcome for not trading for him, that was getting swept in the 1st round.

if he pitches game one somewhere near his last start, that is a whole new game, but then again Rocco pulls him after 4 like he did with Berrios the outcome could be the same.if he starts game two and pitches like he did in the 4 starts prior to he last one the twins are still in that game instead of giving 8 runs up by the end of third.

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#18 Tomj14

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 08:10 AM

 

 

So people are allowed to romanticize about prospects and how they will save the future, but you can't about a guy that in his last start pitched 7 innings gave up 5 hits, walked 2, struck out 9 and gave up 3 runs to a Braves team, got it.

My whole point above was we have no idea what the outcome of trading for Thor was last year, but we do know the outcome for not trading for him, that was getting swept in the 1st round.

if he pitches game one somewhere near his last start, that is a whole new game, but then again Rocco pulls him after 4 like he did with Berrios the outcome could be the same.if he starts game two and pitches like he did in the 4 starts prior to he last one the twins are still in that game instead of giving 8 runs up by the end of third.

 

Even a cooked Thor could have been better than what happened, but then again maybe not.


#19 ewen21

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 08:22 AM

It doesn't make sense to stockpile prospects with no intention of using them to improve the current roster right now.I could understand the sentiment five or six years ago, but we have a team that is young and contending.These GMs have proven that they will go out and augment the still young major league talent we have with proven veterans.

 

I like Kiriloff and Lewis, but for heaven's sake....they are 20 and 21.We have:

Buxton, 26

Sano, 26

Rosario, 28

Arraez, 22

Kepler, 27

Polanco, 26

 

They (Kirilioff and Lewis) are several years away and they are blocked anyway.We'd need to move one of those guys to make room for them so they can apprentice at the major league level.That isn't smart to me.

 

What are we going to do?Let the players above sink or swim or are we going to attempt to improve our pitching by using our assets in the minors?The free agent option is too stupid for us if we are meaning to get an ace.In what reality are we signing a top of the line guy to a giant multi-year deal?It is a fools errand.

 

I am so sick and tired of pretending our prospects are off limits.This is Terry Ryan stupidity.Other teams deal away their top prospects to help the current roster and some of them go all the way.We can't even win a game in the playoffs.Not a damn game.

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#20 ewen21

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 08:24 AM

 

So people are allowed to romanticize about prospects and how they will save the future, but you can't about a guy that in his last start pitched 7 innings gave up 5 hits, walked 2, struck out 9 and gave up 3 runs to a Braves team, got it.

My whole point above was we have no idea what the outcome of trading for Thor was last year, but we do know the outcome for not trading for him, that was getting swept in the 1st round.

if he pitches game one somewhere near his last start, that is a whole new game, but then again Rocco pulls him after 4 like he did with Berrios the outcome could be the same.if he starts game two and pitches like he did in the 4 starts prior to he last one the twins are still in that game instead of giving 8 runs up by the end of third.

I hate to say it, but the underlined part.....

When Berrios was taken out he was getting bro-hugs in the dugout as if he did his job. That mentality is never going to translate into winning in the playoffs.

 

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