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Cafardo: Twins have inquired about Shields

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#91 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

Dave goes beyond optimistic - I was replying to him. He is right now planning the next ten years of World Series parades after Deduno took a minor league deal. He's in his own ballpark.


Yeah, that simply isn't true. I said the Twins have the chance to compete in 2013 if they fix the rotation, adding Shields, Baker and Gibson IMO gives them enough of a chance to compete in a weak AL Central. Also there is zero reason why with Ryan at the helm they can't compete in 2014.

I admit I was wrong in my prediction for 2012 when I said they would win 78-84 games, but that wasn't exactly me predicting 10 world series. You need to lay off the hyperbole, champ.


Adding one really good pitcher turns a 90+ loss team to a ~75 loss one? Baker is coming off Tommy John and Kyle Gibson will be a rookie. There is not enough depth behind them in the case something goes wrong either. You can't expect a rotation with that many question marks to put the Twins into contention, especially with a below average offense (without Span). The chances would be slightly less slim than last year's, but are still not significant.

The Twins need to do much more to compete in 2013. Say we trade Span for Shields, as the majority of people here including yourself seem intent on for some reason, the Twins need at least 2 more quality pitchers and a power bat to even think about contending with the Tigers. Can you really see them winning 88 again next year? God knows that team underachieved until the post-season.

Edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse, 06 November 2012 - 04:57 PM.


#92 Steve J

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.


Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...

#93 ThePuck

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.


Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...


Or just resign him...like right away...

#94 darin617

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

Matt Moore would be a great pitcher to get, he will be a 20 game winner real soon!


Good grief, give the 20 game winner stuff a break.


Exactly, It's not like you have to be a great pitcher to win 20 games. You can just be very lucky and get a ton of run support and not have the bullpen screw you over too much. You could easily have a pitcher win 20 and have an ERA close to 5 and does that make him a good pitcher? No.

#95 ThePuck

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

You could easily have a pitcher win 20 and have an ERA close to 5 and does that make him a good pitcher?


I wonder how many times that's happened...since teams went to five man rotations...where a guy won 20 or more games and had an ERA close to 5 (I'd say close would be 4.76 or higher (close to 5 than 4.5)

#96 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

[quote name='darin617'][quote name='twinscowboysbulls'][quote name='Top Gun']Matt Moore would be a great pitcher to get, he will be a 20 game winner real soon![/QUOTE]

Good grief, give the 20 game winner stuff a break.[/QUOTE]

You could easily have a pitcher win 20 and have an ERA close to 5 and does that make him a good pitcher?.[/QUOTE]

I think that would be pretty difficult to do.

#97 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

I admit I was wrong in my prediction for 2012 when I said they would win 78-84 games, but that wasn't exactly me predicting 10 world series. You need to lay off the hyperbole, champ.


Drudging up the overly optimistic Dave predictions would take centuries - there have been so many comically awful examples that it doesn't pay to just pick one. You're an optimist, great. The rest of us in the real world suffered with awful game experiences, no ability to sell season tickets when we couldn't make a game, inept play, and a product barely worth paying attention to unless you are a diehard. I've earned the right to be a pessimist and so has any other Twins fan.

So no, I don't feel trading Span and a prospect for a two year rental is a sound idea. You want to swap him for Mike Minor, Tommy Hanson, or some other expanded deal with a prospect - fine. At least then you're helping the organization long-term and not trying to chase some naive delusion of contention.


Well yeah I'd obviously prefer Tommy Hanson as well, but I live in the real world where opposing GMS aren't lining up to get destroyed in trades. On that note, maybe we should try to get Strausburg or Matt Moore as well in a Span centered deal!

#98 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

Well yeah I'd obviously prefer Tommy Hanson as well, but I live in the real world where opposing GMS aren't lining up to get destroyed in trades. On that note, maybe we should try to get Strausburg or Matt Moore as well in a Span centered deal!


Cute to hear you lecture on realism! Jeez Dave - what's with your heel schtick on JR's ability to fleece people? (Look, it sounds just as obnoxious and stupid when I do it!)

I don't care who the name is, in my opinion we maximize Span by dealing him for something akin to what KC did for Broxton. Or we trade him for someone with team control. Shields is a good pitcher but he's unlikely to stay here long-term when he has a chance to cash-in and you won't get as much for a pitcher in the final year of his deal. (See: Grienke) And all of this is assuming the price with Span isn't high. (It likely is) So, for many reasons, Shields doesn't make sense. Dangle Span for someone with 3-4 years on this team or start dangling Willingham for the Sheilds-types.

#99 righty8383

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

[quote name='ThePuck'][quote name='Steve J'][quote name='John Bonnes']Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.[/QUOTE]

Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...[/QUOTE]

Or just resign him...like right away...[/QUOTE]

Ding ding ding!

#100 Willihammer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:31 PM

Shields' velocity gain suggests his arm is well and he and can be counted on to be pitching at the trade deadline, and probably pitching well. Span's concussion history on the other hand, suggests he may be the bigger injury risk.

Every year there are are pitchers on all-in clubs that go down with TJ's or torn labrums. So there would be nothing to stop the Twins trading Shields at the deadline for prospects or whatever if the season goes south early and there is a buyer out there desperate for pitching. Heck, they could flip him yet this winter.

#101 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:45 PM

[quote name='righty8383'][quote name='ThePuck'][quote name='Steve J'][quote name='John Bonnes']Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.[/QUOTE]

Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...[/QUOTE]

Or just resign him...like right away...[/QUOTE]

Ding ding ding![/QUOTE]

Maybe if Shields' agent was the anti-Boras.

#102 Steve J

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:07 AM

[quote name='ThePuck'][quote name='Steve J'][quote name='John Bonnes']Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.[/QUOTE]

Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...[/QUOTE]

Or just resign him...like right away...[/QUOTE]

What would Shield's motivation to do that be? just so he can give you a discount in exchange for years he would probably be health through, given his history?

#103 ThePuck

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:16 AM

[quote name='Steve J'][quote name='ThePuck'][quote name='Steve J'][quote name='John Bonnes']Um, it's not like the Twins couldn't trade Shields if this or next season goes down the drain.[/QUOTE]

Or have 2 years and 440 innings of very good pitching, then throw him a qualifying offer at the end...[/QUOTE]

Or just resign him...like right away...[/QUOTE]

What would Shield's motivation to do that be? just so he can give you a discount in exchange for years he would probably be health through, given his history?[/QUOTE]

It would be worth attempting to do, no? Obviously it takes two sides, but my point was, we shouldn't trade for him without trying hard to keep him longer than 2 years...

#104 johnnydakota

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

forget shields , marcum , grienke haren ...kevins will be here ,im sure corriea and slowey after all terry lyan said 3 starters , he didnt say good starters , or he had his fingers crossed , you know its something like that ....we couldnt compete dollar wise , the market didnt justify those number of years we made an offer we tried dont know what went wrong ....same ole same ole

#105 Dilligaf69

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

I'd definitely do Span/Benson but doubt that would be enough.

#106 Dilligaf69

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

forget shields , marcum , grienke haren ...kevins will be here ,im sure corriea and slowey after all terry lyan said 3 starters , he didnt say good starters , or he had his fingers crossed , you know its something like that ....we couldnt compete dollar wise , the market didnt justify those number of years we made an offer we tried dont know what went wrong ....same ole same ole


How old are you???:go:

#107 johnnydakota

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

forget shields , marcum , grienke haren ...kevins will be here ,im sure corriea and slowey after all terry lyan said 3 starters , he didnt say good starters , or he had his fingers crossed , you know its something like that ....we couldnt compete dollar wise , the market didnt justify those number of years we made an offer we tried dont know what went wrong ....same ole same ole


How old are you???:go:

50 why?