106 replies to this topic

[Jeremy Nygaard]

It should be expected and, in my opinion, doesn't really qualify as news.

Here's the LINK anyway.

The theory is that it would cost Span and more to get Shields, who will cost $10.25m in 2013 and at least $12m in 2014 (though he has a $1m buyout).

[greengoblinrulz]

How the Twins inquire
Last winter: Mark Buerhle....we'd sign ya for 2 yrs, but you want 3 or 4, at least we inquired
This year: Ervin Santana: you gonna trade him or release him....ok we inquired
Same with Shields
Wont think differently untill they prove me wrong (I WANT to be proven wrong). Shields would be a great asset untill Rick Anderson imposses his 100 pitch limit on him.

[Twins Fan From Afar]

There's no doubt that Shields would be a great asset to this team and would instantly become our #1 starter. And I have no problem giving up Span for him.

My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this. But if that's true, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to have Shields just until the point that he's not under contract (after 2014), which happens to be the point where I think this team could come into its own with a young crop of talent.

Make no mistake, though, it would be a nice pick-up.

[J-Dog Dungan]

It should be expected and, in my opinion, doesn't really qualify as news.

Here's the LINK anyway.

The theory is that it would cost Span and more to get Shields, who will cost $10.25m in 2013 and at least $12m in 2014 (though he has a $1m buyout).

While this may not qualify as news to those of us who know that the Twins desperately need pitching (which is pretty much anyone who even looks at the players that are on the roster as pitchers), the fact that they are willing to put out there that they are at least attempting to go after one of the top available pitchers on the market is a good sign and a step in the right direction. Now, they just need to sign someone after they "inquire" about them and I will start to fully believe that they are looking for a way back to contention.

[minn55441]

There's no doubt that Shields would be a great asset to this team and would instantly become our #1 starter. And I have no problem giving up Span for him.

My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this. But if that's true, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to have Shields just until the point that he's not under contract (after 2014), which happens to be the point where I think this team could come into its own with a young crop of talent.

Make no mistake, though, it would be a nice pick-up.

I would love to get Shields. I'm of the belief that if we fix the starting Pitching problem, we have a chance. Shields is a step in the right direction and a great step at that. He will be 31 next season and has averaged at least 200 innings for 6 consecutive years. All the while giving up less than one hit per inning during that span.

The real question is what does Tampa want in return? I think they will trade Shields this off season. It fits their MO. Span is working on a very friendly contract, which should add value to the transaction. Who else will we need to throw in? Do we throw in a better prospect and they give us a lesser prospect in return? During the TR interview, he mentioned that we would see some action early. I wonder if he had a trade in mind or a FA signing?

I know some have downplayed the value of Shields in past threads, but I would not mind if we overpaid to land him. I wonder if Span and Benson would be enough to get it done?

[Twins Fan From Afar]

There's no doubt that Shields would be a great asset to this team and would instantly become our #1 starter. And I have no problem giving up Span for him.

My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this. But if that's true, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to have Shields just until the point that he's not under contract (after 2014), which happens to be the point where I think this team could come into its own with a young crop of talent.

Make no mistake, though, it would be a nice pick-up.

I would love to get Shields. I'm of the belief that if we fix the starting Pitching problem, we have a chance. Shields is a step in the right direction and a great step at that. He will be 31 next season and has averaged at least 200 innings for 6 consecutive years. All the while giving up less than one hit per inning during that span.

The real question is what does Tampa want in return? I think they will trade Shields this off season. It fits their MO. Span is working on a very friendly contract, which should add value to the transaction. Who else will we need to throw in? Do we throw in a better prospect and they give us a lesser prospect in return? During the TR interview, he mentioned that we would see some action early. I wonder if he had a trade in mind or a FA signing?

I know some have downplayed the value of Shields in past threads, but I would not mind if we overpaid to land him. I wonder if Span and Benson would be enough to get it done?

Absolutely agreed on the emphasis on fixing pitching. Shields and one other above average starter would go a long way to helping this team become respectable in 2013. And if Span and Benson for Shields could get the job done, count me in.

[Seth Stohs]

I get greengoblinz skepticism and on some level I share it. But, honestly, at this stage, almost a month before the Winter Meetings, I would expect to hear much more inquiring than dealing. I mean, it takes more than one phone call to make a deal, and all deals need to start somewhere. Generally, that's with an inquiring. Ryan needs to know if he's really available and an approximate starting point on what would get it to happen. The Rays will inquire about what the TWins might want to do. The Twins should downplay it some, but anyone in baseball knows that the Twins need SP. So, I'm excited to hear that a lot of inquiring is going on already. hat is good news. Whether anything will happen? Well, it takes two sides...

[Kwak]

Shields would be a tentpole for the rotation. Two years of team control at his salary is very affordable. It's time to make a serious offer.

[jorgenswest]

Many teams should be interested in Shields. The Rays will get a good return. The Royals are looking for pitching. If they get involved, they have the talent to offer a bat and a pitching prospect. If the Rays are also looking for a pitching prospect with the major league bat, the Twins may not be a good match for them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Many teams should be interested in Shields. The Rays will get a good return. The Royals are looking for pitching. If they get involved, they have the talent to offer a bat and a pitching prospect. If the Rays are also looking for a pitching prospect with the major league bat, the Twins may not be a good match for them.

If that's what the Rays are asking, they can keep Shields. He's a good, not great, pitcher who is due to make ~$22m over the next two seasons. It doesn't make sense to pay significant prospects for a guy who isn't priced much below what he'd get on the free agent market.

[Twins Twerp]

How the Twins inquire
Last winter: Mark Buerhle....we'd sign ya for 2 yrs, but you want 3 or 4, at least we inquired
This year: Ervin Santana: you gonna trade him or release him....ok we inquired
Same with Shields
Wont think differently untill they prove me wrong (I WANT to be proven wrong). Shields would be a great asset untill Rick Anderson imposses his 100 pitch limit on him.

Haha, so you wanted to sign Buerle to that monster deal in his late thirties? Come on lets get real. Yes the Twins inquired about people, and in a free market, that is all you can do. Lets start throwing stones after the winter meetings people. Don't be pissed off because we didn't trade for Ervin Santana, who is probably well into his 30's for all we know. The Twins tried but often times these deals come back to bite teams in the bum.

We sign Joe Mauer long term and people scream bloody murder two years down the road. I guess your damned if you do damned if you don't for the Twins front office (who I may add built a playoff contender for the better part of a decade).

How about we do this...overpay for guys on the free agent market because the fans want it. Then the Twins fans will call for the GM's head because said player is way overpaid and should not have been given such a huge contract. Make up your mind fairweather Twins fans.

[jorgenswest]

I agree. The price may be too high and the Twins need to look longer term.

It is tough to buy starting pitching through trades or free agency. Pitching is the most valuable currency. The A's traded several starting pitchers over the years and each time sought young pitching in return. You usually need pitching to get pitching.

[Top Gun]

Can Shields win 20? I doubt it.

[Twins Twerp]

I've got a little bit of an off topic question here, but what are the chances we trade Span for a mid to upper level pitching prospect? A few people, ok a lot of people on this site seem to think the Twins will not compete next year. I happen to lean towards the school of thought that they will not compete. The free agent market is full of overpriced, peaking or on the decline pitchers. Is anyone going to give us a top (50-100 nationally rated) prospect? I would almost prefer a pitching prospect or two instead of a major league pitcher like Shields for 2 years.

[greengoblinrulz]

How the Twins inquire
Last winter: Mark Buerhle....we'd sign ya for 2 yrs, but you want 3 or 4, at least we inquired
This year: Ervin Santana: you gonna trade him or release him....ok we inquired
Same with Shields
Wont think differently untill they prove me wrong (I WANT to be proven wrong). Shields would be a great asset untill Rick Anderson imposses his 100 pitch limit on him.

Haha, so you wanted to sign Buerle to that monster deal in his late thirties? Come on lets get real. Yes the Twins inquired about people, and in a free market, that is all you can do. Lets start throwing stones after the winter meetings people. Don't be pissed off because we didn't trade for Ervin Santana, who is probably well into his 30's for all we know. The Twins tried but often times these deals come back to bite teams in the bum.

We sign Joe Mauer long term and people scream bloody murder two years down the road. I guess your damned if you do damned if you don't for the Twins front office (who I may add built a playoff contender for the better part of a decade).

How about we do this...overpay for guys on the free agent market because the fans want it. Then the Twins fans will call for the GM's head because said player is way overpaid and should not have been given such a huge contract. Make up your mind fairweather Twins fans.

Dont get me wrong, I had absolutely no interest in Buerhle last yr as IMO he's not an ace but an innings eater (is a difference to me). I also wanted nothing to do with Santana at his salary (FA maybe).
I believe MN does a couple things. They will 'just' underbid on a player & then blame it on the market OR talk about a team wanting WAY too much in a trade when they knew there was no shot/interest to begin with BUT it makes the fanbase happy.
This has been the Twins MO for sometime. I hope they prove me wrong eventually but they have NEVER been a player in FA & I dont expect it this winter either, as the will blame it on the market.

[mbents]

I would love to get James Shields as long as the Rays aren't asking for too much. I think Denard Span plus a good prospect is a lot, but it would be worth it, especially since we would have him for at least two years. Saying that Shields is "good but not great" is an understatement - he isn't great, but he's a very good pitcher. I do think TR thinks the Twins can contend in 2013, so this is the kind of deal I would expect him to pursue.

[Brandon]

My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this.

This is small thinking. The Twins are 3 starting pitchers away from competing next year and a few minor adjustments. Baker has a good chance of comming back. Gibson should be ready next spring too. There are numerous starting pitchers available as free agents and we also have players we are able to trade. We should compete next year, there are too many opportunities to get the job done. If we are not competing next year then TR failed.

[twinscowboysbulls]

If the deal were to be Span and Benson, I think you do it no doubt, as long as it doesn cost us Span plus a highly regarded prospect, I think we do it. Then you sign Marcum and bring back Baker on an incentive laden deal and suddenly you aren't bad SP-wise.Hopefully you get Gibson/Hicks/Arcia ready to roll by May/June.

I think if you intend to trade for Shields, you need to extend him right away. If he were to pitch for us for only 2 years, I wouldn't really consider the deal to be a win for Minnesota.

[Riverbrian]

The Twins should be making phone calls and discussing almost every pitcher in baseball.

[SpantheMan]

Stop saying that Shields won't be valuable because we won't be competing. If we aren't, Span (most people think is the center of the package) won't be useful easier.

[johnnydakota]

Many teams should be interested in Shields. The Rays will get a good return. The Royals are looking for pitching. If they get involved, they have the talent to offer a bat and a pitching prospect. If the Rays are also looking for a pitching prospect with the major league bat, the Twins may not be a good match for them.

If that's what the Rays are asking, they can keep Shields. He's a good, not great, pitcher who is due to make ~$22m over the next two seasons. It doesn't make sense to pay significant prospects for a guy who isn't priced much below what he'd get on the free agent market.

i believe shields is ranked as the 11th best starter in baseball for 2012, with santana getting 15 million you think 23 million over 2 years is high for this inning eatting stud?my thoughts are that curly needs to offer up span and a handful of non factor prospects including our minor leaque pitcher of the year hermsen,but he needs to make this trade now, so free agent pitchers can look and see that there will be the making of a rotation other then diamond...

[johnnydakota]

Can Shields win 20? I doubt it.

no but winning 15 is a 25%improvement over last years best pitcher....also would be worth about a 12 game swing in our standings

[old nurse]

How the Twins inquire
Last winter: Mark Buerhle....we'd sign ya for 2 yrs, but you want 3 or 4, at least we inquired
This year: Ervin Santana: you gonna trade him or release him....ok we inquired
Same with Shields
Wont think differently untill they prove me wrong (I WANT to be proven wrong). Shields would be a great asset untill Rick Anderson imposses his 100 pitch limit on him.

You really want Santana and that contract for a year? The Royals gave up a mediocre, long time minor league pitcher and I bet they did not get the million of the buyout. 13 million for one year should buy you a better pitcher than Santana was last year. Now if the Angels loved some prospect you don't and you could get some cash.... The benefit of the inquiry is that it starts a conversation that leads you to know what mediocre prospects of yours they like. You could pluck another Brunansky off their minor league team.

Would have you wanted Buerle a 4 yrs/ 60 million?

Tampaa has aa few needs in the outfield. If you don't talk, you wont get anywhere

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

[Twins Fan From Afar]

My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this.

This is small thinking. The Twins are 3 starting pitchers away from competing next year and a few minor adjustments. Baker has a good chance of comming back. Gibson should be ready next spring too. There are numerous starting pitchers available as free agents and we also have players we are able to trade. We should compete next year, there are too many opportunities to get the job done. If we are not competing next year then TR failed.

I'm not quite sure how this is small thinking. If the Twins intend to compete next year against, for example, Detroit, they need -- according to you -- to get 3/5 of a new pitching rotation. That alone is significant. Then there is the left side of the infield. Then there is second base. Then there's hoping that Span, Morneau and Mauer stay as healthy as they did last season.

I'm not suggesting that this is not possible. I am suggesting that, for 2013, that is a tall order, and might not be feasible, considering that this team does have a budget (whether or not we, as fans, agree with that budget).

[Brandon]

On most years you would be right that 3 pitchers would be a tall order. But there are too many possibilities for us not to be able to get it done this year. we have 2 exess players that are tradeable and an OF prospect or 2 as well. We have 25 or so million off the books and Gibson and Hendricks could be 2 of the pitchers next year. There are numerous FA in our price range. Yes this will be difficult but we have more tools to get it done than most others do too. and once we get 3 pitchers all we are looking at to push us forward is bench and bullpen depth. again not too tall of an order,

[beckmt]

I would pay Span and Parmalee. That is dealing from excess to get a front line starter. Rays may wnat to deal Hellickson instead and I wonder what it would take. Twins seem like a good fit to Tampa as they have a couple of cost controled players for a pitcher or two. Twins outfield prospects should be ready by 2014 - 2015. This helps buy time as I expect at least one of the prospects to be ready this year.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

Span is too much for Shields?

Get a grip, people.

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

Edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse, 05 November 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[ThePuck]

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

Edited by ThePuck, 05 November 2012 - 07:58 AM.