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Astros Consequences Thread

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#21 h2oface

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 08:04 PM

 

And my post isn't aimed solely at the 17 responses in this thread. There's definitely a strong sentiment on TD and elsewhere that Houston "deserves," a beating. I have a hard time believing it's only those who approve of that particular unwritten rule suddenly coming out of the woodwork to post. 

 

I sense the attitone too. It is like saying, "I'm not saying they should.... but........" 

 

I will always feel that the most cowardly thing a baseball player can do it throw a ball on purpose with intent 90+ mph at another player. Of course, then they lie on top of it and say they didn't mean to. Cowards and liars.

 

Just play ball and play to win. 

 


#22 SQUIRREL

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 09:15 PM

And my post isn't aimed solely at the 17 responses in this thread. There's definitely a strong sentiment on TD and elsewhere that Houston "deserves," a beating. I have a hard time believing it's only those who approve of that particular unwritten rule suddenly coming out of the woodwork to post.


I honestly don’t see that it is a majority opinion on TD. There are one or two posters here and there that maybe think that that is the way to resolve it. Many feel, however, that the players involved should be fined or face some kind of punishment, and some have expressed that more strongly than others. This doesn’t necessarily mean they want to see bean balls thrown and anyone’s head. That is very few here. As for me, I think the players involved do deserve to face some form of punishment via MLB ... a fine, having their rings taken away, something. But I do not want to see players take matters into their own hands in such a way that could cause grievous harm. And while I don’t want to see that, and as opposed as I am to that happening, players out there are angry and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of this unwritten rules stuff comes into play. I am not a fan of unwritten rules. I’m not a fan of cheating either. And because MLB and the commissioner granted immunity, it seems as if these players got away with it, reaped all the rewards, and what ... nothing.
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#23 SQUIRREL

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 09:15 PM

I sense the attitone too. It is like saying, "I'm not saying they should.... but........" 
 
I will always feel that the most cowardly thing a baseball player can do it throw a ball on purpose with intent 90+ mph at another player. Of course, then they lie on top of it and say they didn't mean to. Cowards and liars.
 
Just play ball and play to win.


I agree. But it’s also cowardly to cheat, too.
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#24 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 05:26 AM

And my post isn't aimed solely at the 17 responses in this thread. There's definitely a strong sentiment on TD and elsewhere that Houston "deserves," a beating. I have a hard time believing it's only those who approve of that particular unwritten rule suddenly coming out of the woodwork to post.


Every couple of years something will trigger a long thread here about throwing at players for retribution for some unwritten rule.
When that happens, we learn that there are alot of posters who approve of doing that.
So I don't know that it's so hard to believe that it's those same posters who approve of throwing at Astros hitters.

#25 Platoon

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 05:52 AM

Some here use the term head hunting. Head hunting and throwing at some guy from the belt  on down are two completely different acts. One is an intent to severely injure. The other is an intent to send a message. While I realize that not everyone discerns the difference, I do think the players do. As do I. If you asked me if it’s ok to plunk George Springer in the butt to thank him for stealing signs, I would be fine with that. If you asked me if it was ok to throw at George Springers head for the same reason I would be vehemently against it. 

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#26 SQUIRREL

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 07:59 AM

Every couple of years something will trigger a long thread here about throwing at players for retribution for some unwritten rule.
When that happens, we learn that there are alot of posters who approve of doing that.
So I don't know that it's so hard to believe that it's those same posters who approve of throwing at Astros hitters.

I don’t think it’s a lot, though. Yes, there are some, and I know of two off the top of my head. Most are the against it. I think intentionally throwing at someone is bad, and I don’t agree with it. I think unwritten rules, are for the most part, dumb. To relate this to the topic, I think despite not being okay with it, as I am, I think it will happen. And I am very interested how the commissioner handles it. The Astros players who cheated got off without any recourse because of the immunity granted. Many players have spoken out about how upset they are by the whole thing. I think it’s fair to be upset by it but that doesn’t mean most here agree with intentionally throwing at a batter is just.
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#27 SQUIRREL

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 01:36 PM

I don't think the fans will let up on this any time soon; granted, it's only spring training and maybe it will die down once regular season play starts, but ...

 

https://ftw.usatoday...e-he-struck-out

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#28 SQUIRREL

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 02:00 PM

And now A-Rod has a thing or two to say ...

 

https://www.cbssport...eating-scandal/

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#29 Platoon

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 04:24 PM

Whats sort of strange is no one seemed to see this coming or seems to have considered it? If so they aren’t admitting it. You put cameras in CF, monitors in the clubhouse, communications to the bench, and millions of dollars on the line, and expect purity? Really? You got to be kidding. First off there’s millions of dollars involved, secondly there is millions of dollars involved, third they have been stealing signs for years and shouldn’t have. In past years a lot of players didn’t want to receive stolen signs, the penalty could be painful. Now, with our abhorrence of such acts, it’s harmless fun. Well at least for the players. Sooner or later we will find out another team or two dabbled in the same thing. Should the Astros have done this? NO.  But to be surprised or appalled they did seems somewhat delusional. If players will pump hazardous chemicals into themselves for financial reasons, they sure as heck won’t mind knowing a little more about pitch sequencing than is legal, to improve their numbers. 

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#30 ewen21

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 06:13 PM

 

I wish there was a count for the number of posters who thrash the unwritten rules but suddenly are in favor of other teams throwing at Houston.....

 

Fans should boo them, bring trash cans to bang, find any other sort of creative way to express their disgust, ect. I'm glad other players are speaking out, even if I do feel like some of it is possibly hypocritical, but the approval or encouragement of headhunting Houston seems to fly in the face of the usual pushback on TD against such tactics.

I won't complain if the Astros lead the league in HBPs.if that is what happens then that is what happensWould you have trouble with that?

 

Not sure who you are speaking to here.

 

 


#31 USAFChief

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 10:39 AM

Some here use the term head hunting. Head hunting and throwing at some guy from the belt on down are two completely different acts. One is an intent to severely injure. The other is an intent to send a message. While I realize that not everyone discerns the difference, I do think the players do. As do I. If you asked me if it’s ok to plunk George Springer in the butt to thank him for stealing signs, I would be fine with that. If you asked me if it was ok to throw at George Springers head for the same reason I would be vehemently against it.

concur.

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#32 PseudoSABR

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 11:07 AM

 

And now A-Rod has a thing or two to say ...

 

https://www.cbssport...eating-scandal/

I can't think of anyone who has down more post-career to turn their reputation around than Arod.Now he's an authority on how you deal with cheaters.


#33 SomeGuy

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 01:29 PM

I'm curious what are everyone's thoughts on pitchers using illegal substances to grip the baseball better.The post below is from Trade rumors yesterday and quotes Angels pitcher Andrew Heaney as saying most pitchers are currently doing it. It reminds me of the Pineda pine tar incident and a little of the Astros sign stealing incident where MLB is basically saying please be more discreet with your cheating.

 

 

The Angels fired visiting clubhouse manager Brian Harkins on Thursday amid allegations that he provided “illegal substances” to help opposing pitchers grip the ball better, Maria Torres of the Los Angeles Times reports. The news did not come as a surprise to the Angels, per Jeff Fletcher of the OC Register. “I think everybody knows that most guys are doing it,” left-hander Andrew Heaney said. “I don’t think it’s that surprising for anybody who knows baseball.” Pitching coach Mickey Callaway told Fletcher he expects Major League Baseball to ban hurlers from using pine tar and other such substances, but he believes it could have a detrimental effect because they help pitchers’ control – especially in cold conditions. “If I were a hitter, I’d be scared to dig into the box in Detroit on April 10,” he said. Manager Joe Maddon also weighed in, saying pitchers have been using substances to better their grip for “as long as I’ve been in baseball.” Maddon wonders whether MLB will eventually have to make changes to the ball, as the current one has become slicker.


#34 SomeGuy

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 01:33 PM

CBS fantasy baseball podcast also had a nice tidbit on the Astros beanings.It was from a while ago so I am not sure how much this has changed.

 

At the time the Astros were leading ST in hit by pitches and everyone was writing articles about it being retribution. Of those that were hit only Jose Altuve was with the 2017 team or guaranteed a spot on this years team.Jose Altuve's lone beaning was a curveball that barely got his foot.Seems unlikely that pitchers are gunning down Houston minor leaguers or throwing curveballs at their feet as retribution.


#35 biggentleben

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 03:27 PM

 

CBS fantasy baseball podcast also had a nice tidbit on the Astros beanings.It was from a while ago so I am not sure how much this has changed.

 

At the time the Astros were leading ST in hit by pitches and everyone was writing articles about it being retribution. Of those that were hit only Jose Altuve was with the 2017 team or guaranteed a spot on this years team.Jose Altuve's lone beaning was a curveball that barely got his foot.Seems unlikely that pitchers are gunning down Houston minor leaguers or throwing curveballs at their feet as retribution.

I mentioned upthread the standings as of March 4. Thirty players have now been hit multiple times this spring, none are Astros. The team is now tied with four other clubs for 14th place among teams, with less than half the HBP as a team of the team leader currently (7 for the Astros to 15 for the Cardinals).

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#36 jkcarew

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 04:21 PM

Some here use the term head hunting. Head hunting and throwing at some guy from the belt  on down are two completely different acts. One is an intent to severely injure. The other is an intent to send a message. While I realize that not everyone discerns the difference, I do think the players do. As do I. If you asked me if it’s ok to plunk George Springer in the butt to thank him for stealing signs, I would be fine with that. If you asked me if it was ok to throw at George Springers head for the same reason I would be vehemently against it.


Many agree, I think. But, if Sano leads the AL in getting plunked in the butt because a bunch of pitchers are bothered by his 35-second HR trots (as a hypothetical example)..we wouldn’t be vehemently against that then, either? Or is it only fine that pitchers take policing and ‘messages’ into their own hands when we agree with the cause? Can’t have it both ways, IMO. If you,re ok with the sending of messages in this manner (and I think many of us are)...you can’t turn around and condemn it the instant a pitcher does it for something that offends them or their teammates, but doesn’t offend us. That’s where we get exposed to some hypocrisy on this topic, IMO. (Not directing this at Platoon...but the larger community, including myself.)
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#37 Nine of twelve

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 04:37 PM

 

Some here use the term head hunting. Head hunting and throwing at some guy from the belt  on down are two completely different acts. One is an intent to severely injure. The other is an intent to send a message. While I realize that not everyone discerns the difference, I do think the players do. As do I. If you asked me if it’s ok to plunk George Springer in the butt to thank him for stealing signs, I would be fine with that. If you asked me if it was ok to throw at George Springers head for the same reason I would be vehemently against it. 

This is still very subjective and I don't know where I would draw the line. Aiming for the belt and missing a little could easily result in a hand/wrist injury. Or a broken rib. And I know I would not want to be hit in the groan. (Misspelling done purposely.) And what exactly constitutes a satisfactory reason to purposely throw at a batter? Maybe I'm just becoming a wuss in my old age but I'm beginning to come around to the point of view that the rules committee, the umpires, and the people in the MLB front offices in charge of discipline should be the ones to handle any consequences for rule-breaking, not a pitcher. And that includes unsportsmanlike conduct.


#38 ewen21

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 04:09 PM

 

Every couple of years something will trigger a long thread here about throwing at players for retribution for some unwritten rule.
When that happens, we learn that there are alot of posters who approve of doing that.
So I don't know that it's so hard to believe that it's those same posters who approve of throwing at Astros hitters.

I approve of it in some cases and this is one of those cases where I give latitude to pitchers to do just that.

 

Now what?


#39 David HK

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 08:46 PM

 

And now A-Rod has a thing or two to say ...

 

https://www.cbssport...eating-scandal/

Wow. That was a very interesting read.

 

A-Rod will be forever known as a cheater, as will the Astro* players of that era, and deservedly so. But if you read his actual words, instead of just the headline (cheater talks about cheaters), there's a lesson that should have been followed by those involved in this scandal.

 

Nobody can stand the half-baked non-apologies that come from sport stars, celebs, and pols when they get caught. (My all-time Hall of Shame: "It's not who I am.") But what A-Rod said and did ring clear. The most important word he used: "I."I did it... I deserved it... I owned it... And he actually did make a clear, heartfelt apology for his own actions. Would he have done so without getting caught? Most likely not. But there it is.

 

If there had been actual, meaningful punishment from MLB, if there had been words like these coming from the Astros*, from their gutless, childish owner on down to the actual perpetrators, I don't think we'd even be talking about consequences like getting hit. These guys not only cheated in the most despicable fashion, they didn't get punished, and they didn't even apologize. What signal does that send?

 

It's like fighting in hockey. Yeh, there are still guys who make their way to the NHL that way, but what a lot of it comes from is guys getting cheap shots that the officials don't deal with, and taking matters into their own hands, so it doesn't keep happening. 

 

Yep, it's a cheater, talking about cheaters. But the words are important.

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