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#41 nicksaviking

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:47 AM

 

This is the equivalent of SKOR North wanting to remove Zulgad from ownership of his car, because he has too many parking tickets.

 

It ain't North Korea.The Astros are Jim Crane's property.

 

More like revoking his license to operate that car which forces him to sell or abandon it as it no longer provides him a benefit.

 

Ask Marge Schott if there are effective tactics to remove an owner.

 

Off the top of my head, some combination of taking away all 1-2 round draft picks, limiting international spending to 50K and/or a ban on post season play for Houston as long as Crane owns the team should do the trick. I believe all of those things lie within the discretion of the commissioner.

 

Should removal be of interest to the rest of the league that is.

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#42 wombat28

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 12:39 PM

I consider golf one of the four major sports, along with MLB, NFL, NHL, and the NBA(that's my B1G math). And I consider the PGA and MLB the two sports that are the most "true to play" and honest. By true to play I mean it's impossible for officiating to call an NBA and NHL game correctly with that type of play, grabbing, reaching, poking, etc. And the NFL has only gotten worse with what is and isn't pass interference and of course allowing offensive linemen to hold on virtually every play. Golf, with high definition TV and the ability to penalize a player after their round is complete is as true to play and honest as it gets. And MLB, now with instant replay is truly about skill and talent, no bad officiating, blown calls, and cheap shots (Bosa's hit to O'Neill's head). I'm old school and didn't agree with instant replay in MLB, I said if the ball's at second before the runner, he's out even if the bag isn't touched. But here we are and I've adapted, now I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm in favor of the electronic strike zone. Ump's are human and they give a Verlander or a Kershaw a call that a Dobnak or Gibson wouldn't get (not every time), but it's true, they're human. The Astro's scandal is what prompted me to write this, because I truly do believe the PGA and MLB are the only two major sports that are even remotely close to pure skill, talent, and honesty.


#43 Road trip

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 01:10 PM

 

More like revoking his license to operate that car which forces him to sell or abandon it as it no longer provides him a benefit.

 

Ask Marge Schott if there are effective tactics to remove an owner.

 

Off the top of my head, some combination of taking away all 1-2 round draft picks, limiting international spending to 50K and/or a ban on post season play for Houston as long as Crane owns the team should do the trick. I believe all of those things lie within the discretion of the commissioner.

 

Should removal be of interest to the rest of the league that is.

Yup. In addition to Schott, McCourt was forced out in 2012 and Steinbrenner was banned from the league for several years in the 1990s. Plenty of precedent.


#44 jkcarew

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:21 PM

I agree with the premise of this article, 100%. MLB needs to move past the sign-stealing scandal and address more, and bigger, fundamental challenges for the future of the game.

 

Unfortunately, the commissioner and the Astros players are standing in the way of moving on. Nothing is going to change or happen beyond what's already taken place...but just when it seems we start to move on, an Astro's player or the commissioner do/say something stupid, and we start all over again. Yuk.

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#45 jkcarew

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:30 PM

 

As to Astros and the league, the league has purchased teams in the past, and could do so now, taking control of the Astros on a reduced price or kick them out of the league. If MLB wanted to, it could retract them, like the Expos.

For my part, I would be very much apposed to taking the franchise from the fan-base because of something the players and/or FO did. 

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#46 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 08:46 AM

This is the equivalent of SKOR North wanting to remove Zulgad from ownership of his car, because he has too many parking tickets.

It ain't North Korea. The Astros are Jim Crane's property.

Tell that to Donald Sterling.

#47 FormerMinnasotan

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 09:49 AM

This is the equivalent of SKOR North wanting to remove Zulgad from ownership of his car, because he has too many parking tickets.

It ain't North Korea. The Astros are Jim Crane's property.

Tell that to the late Marge Schott. As I recall she was forced to give up ownership of the Cincinnati Reds. If Schott can be removed as owner of an MLB team so can Crane.
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#48 Number3

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 08:51 AM

2017

Home48 - 33- 
Road53-28 

2018

Home46 - 35 
Road57 - 24 

 

Above are home and road splits for the Astros in 2017 and 2018. Notice anything unusual? They must have had 2 trash cans for the away games.

 

Also, 2017 record was identical to Twins 2019 record. Twins set MLB home run record in 2019. Just an observation.


#49 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:56 AM

 

2017

Home48 - 33- 
Road53-28 

2018

Home46 - 35 
Road57 - 24 

 

Above are home and road splits for the Astros in 2017 and 2018. Notice anything unusual? They must have had 2 trash cans for the away games.

 

Also, 2017 record was identical to Twins 2019 record. Twins set MLB home run record in 2019. Just an observation.

 

They admitted to the cheating.

 

So are you suggesting the cheating was OK if it was ineffective?


#50 SQUIRREL

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 02:24 PM

 

They admitted to the cheating.

 

So are you suggesting the cheating was OK if it was ineffective?

They also admitted to doing it on the road, too, so the splits are really meaningless.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

#51 Number3

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:39 AM

 

They admitted to the cheating.

 

So are you suggesting the cheating was OK if it was ineffective?

I "honestly" believe that this is much ado about nothing. Execution is the key to winning and most times brain clutter and distractions are not good in the heat of battle. Listening for banging on trash cans and thinking you know the sign but not being absolutely sure probably did as much harm as good. Its definitely an embarrassment but probably had no impact on wins and losses.


#52 SQUIRREL

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:52 AM

I "honestly" believe that this is much ado about nothing. Execution is the key to winning and most times brain clutter and distractions are not good in the heat of battle. Listening for banging on trash cans and thinking you know the sign but not being absolutely sure probably did as much harm as good. Its definitely an embarrassment but probably had no impact on wins and losses.


Well, we can never know what impact it had. And you can never know that it didn’t impact the outcome. But many major leaguers have come out and said knowing what pitch is coming is a HUGE advantage. They cheated. It wasn’t a clean win. Their championship will forever be tainted.
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

#53 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 10:50 AM

I "honestly" believe that this is much ado about nothing. Execution is the key to winning and most times brain clutter and distractions are not good in the heat of battle. Listening for banging on trash cans and thinking you know the sign but not being absolutely sure probably did as much harm as good. Its definitely an embarrassment but probably had no impact on wins and losses.


If it had no impact, they wouldn't do it.
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#54 Number3

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:06 AM

wombat posted

".....The Astro's scandal is what prompted me to write this, because I truly do believe the PGA and MLB are the only two major sports that are even remotely close to pure skill, talent, and honesty."

 

I posed a golf analogy earlier, maybe in another thread, challenging anyone who is aghast at the Astros swearing that they have never rolled a ball in the rough during a weekend golf outing. No response.

The fact is that pro golfers have more pre shot information than a baseball player could dream about. Imagine a ball player being told where a ball was going to be hit before the pitch was thrown. Again, it boils down to execution, not pre shot/pitch knowledge. The sign stealing debacle was probably not anything the players dreamed up. More than likely an analytics geek trying to impress management.


#55 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:41 AM

wombat posted
".....The Astro's scandal is what prompted me to write this, because I truly do believe the PGA and MLB are the only two major sports that are even remotely close to pure skill, talent, and honesty."

I posed a golf analogy earlier, maybe in another thread, challenging anyone who is aghast at the Astros swearing that they have never rolled a ball in the rough during a weekend golf outing. No response.
The fact is that pro golfers have more pre shot information than a baseball player could dream about. Imagine a ball player being told where a ball was going to be hit before the pitch was thrown. Again, it boils down to execution, not pre shot/pitch knowledge. The sign stealing debacle was probably not anything the players dreamed up. More than likely an analytics geek trying to impress management.


That's because it's a pretty far out there comparison.

Using a toe wedge in a meaningless golf game against your buddies isn't even in the same universe as systematic organization wide cheating by professionals, in a billion dollar industry, that is wagered on by millions of people.
And 40,000 people have paid money and taken hours out of their lives to attend a sporting event that is advertised as being fair.
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#56 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:44 AM

 

wombat posted

".....The Astro's scandal is what prompted me to write this, because I truly do believe the PGA and MLB are the only two major sports that are even remotely close to pure skill, talent, and honesty."

 

I posed a golf analogy earlier, maybe in another thread, challenging anyone who is aghast at the Astros swearing that they have never rolled a ball in the rough during a weekend golf outing. No response.

The fact is that pro golfers have more pre shot information than a baseball player could dream about. Imagine a ball player being told where a ball was going to be hit before the pitch was thrown. Again, it boils down to execution, not pre shot/pitch knowledge. The sign stealing debacle was probably not anything the players dreamed up. More than likely an analytics geek trying to impress management.

Sorry, I'm going to take the best baseball player in the world's opinion over yours on the subject of cheating.

 

If Mike Trout, a man who rarely speaks up about much of anything and quietly goes about being the best baseball player to ever walk the planet, blasts the Astros for cheating and says it gave them an advantage, I believe him.

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#57 twinsnorth49

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 12:41 AM

I "honestly" believe that this is much ado about nothing. Execution is the key to winning and most times brain clutter and distractions are not good in the heat of battle. Listening for banging on trash cans and thinking you know the sign but not being absolutely sure probably did as much harm as good. Its definitely an embarrassment but probably had no impact on wins and losses.


Much ado about nothing?

You’re kidding, right?

I mean you have to be.

AJ Hinch
Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran probably don’t think it’s much ado about nothing.

#58 old nurse

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 05:14 AM

Thought I was on Yahoo sports there for a moment


#59 Number3

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 08:53 AM

As far as the Mike Trout comment goes, this is baseball's version of the me too movement. They play in the same division so of course he and the Angels are "angels"and the Astros are a bunch of bums. Its an image thing. It seems that the MLB brass is more in agreement with me than with those who think the whole Astros team should be banned from baseball. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so what?

No one can prove they won a single game because of it and in spite of immunity granted no player has stated that it led to a single victory. Many say that Bobby Thompson knew the pitch that Ralph Branca threw before the shot heard around the world.

( I admit that I have been a devils advocate in this and I apologize for that. No more. Go Twins!)

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#60 jkcarew

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 10:40 AM

 

As far as the Mike Trout comment goes, this is baseball's version of the me too movement. They play in the same division so of course he and the Angels are "angels"and the Astros are a bunch of bums. Its an image thing. It seems that the MLB brass is more in agreement with me than with those who think the whole Astros team should be banned from baseball. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so what?

No one can prove they won a single game because of it and in spite of immunity granted no player has stated that it led to a single victory. Many say that Bobby Thompson knew the pitch that Ralph Branca threw before the shot heard around the world.

( I admit that I have been a devils advocate in this and I apologize for that. No more. Go Twins!)

Nothing wrong with being a devil's advocate, IMO...and, at least in my mind, especially when done with civility and when relevant to the topic at hand.

 

And, in my experience, even devil's advocates are seldom completely alone on their islands here at TD. :)