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Marwin Gonzalez Addresses Media, Expresses Regret

marwin gonzalez jose berrios rich hill
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#101 DocBauer

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:19 AM

I threw a “perhaps” in there because the lines get real blurry when trying to rank bad things. :)

Is it worse to be trampled by a herd of water buffalo or get stuck in an elevator with an angry badger or is it worse to live in Nebraska?

For the record... It has never been proven that Pete Rose bet against his team. The Dowd report never claimed he did.

No bookie is going to take that bet BTW.

It would be like me saying “Hey Chief... I’ll Bet you that I will spill this water all over the floor”. And you say “I’ll give you 4-1 odds.” And then I pour the water on the floor and you say “Ok you win this time... let’s go double or nothing.... here’s another glass of water”.

I was pretty young during the Black Sox Scandal so the historical significance is lost on me and I’m not the type to hold a grudge. :)


Hey now...some of us live in Nebraska. At least one of us does. Not naming names or anything.
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#102 prouster

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:39 AM

I'm pretty sure that's not what Mike said, like AT ALL.

Don't put words into other posters' mouths, especially when they're that derogatory in nature.


Didn’t mean to do that. When people put things in print, they need to be clear so as not to be misunderstood. I saw the two things side by side—AP's child abuse and Marwin's role in the cheating scandal both being reasons to stop cheering for them—and commented on it. My general opinion is people are overreacting to the Marwin stuff.


#103 prouster

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:43 AM

 

I didn't say any such thing. Not even close. I said I wouldn't be rooting for Marwin.

Fair enough. As I said in a post above, I saw the two things next to each other and felt like you were suggesting some sort of equivalence between the two. Sorry if I came off as glib or an a-hole.


#104 spycake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:58 AM

 

Sorry if I came off as glib or an a-hole.

810075

 

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#105 birdwatcher

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:09 PM

 

I threw a “perhaps” in there because the lines get real blurry when trying to rank bad things.:) 

Is it worse to be trampled by a herd of water buffalo or get stuck in an elevator with an angry badger or is it worse to live in Nebraska?

For the record... It has never been proven that Pete Rose bet against his team. The Dowd report never claimed he did.

No bookie is going to take that bet BTW.

It would be like me saying “Hey Chief... I’ll Bet you that I will spill this water all over the floor”. And you say “I’ll give you 4-1 odds.” And then I pour the water on the floor and you say “Ok you win this time... let’s go double or nothing.... here’s another glass of water”.

I was pretty young during the Black Sox Scandal so the historical significance is lost on me and I’m not the type to hold a grudge.:)

Nebraska. South central Nebraska.


#106 USAFChief

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:12 PM

Nebraska. South central Nebraska.

yeah, the gang problem is pretty bad in south central.
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#107 jbissell

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:02 PM

 

I don't think it's an injustice at all.

 

I don't like what the Astros did, but they essentially cheated to get ahead, like many players have before them (steroid users, ball scuffers, etc.).

 

Rose bet on his own team's games. That's a whole different animal. And the rules and precedent on gambling are pretty clear.

Fair enough on the rules and precedent of gambling. 

 

However, Pete Rose is banned for life. Bregman and Altuve (And whomever else) are not suffering any tangible consequences. I just dont understand how they'll suffer nothing other than Booing at away games.


#108 spycake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:17 PM

 

Fair enough on the rules and precedent of gambling. 

 

However, Pete Rose is banned for life. Bregman and Altuve (And whomever else) are not suffering any tangible consequences. I just dont understand how they'll suffer nothing other than Booing at away games.

What did Barry Bonds suffer for cheating? Joe Niekro? Gaylord Perry?

 

I totally get wanting to see the Astros players punished, but baseball doesn't have much of a history of meting out tough punishments on players for cheating. The strongest ones are the PED suspensions, but those are a lot easier to prove -- and a lot of people think those are weak punishments too.

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#109 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 02:24 PM

 

We also have an apology problem in the US, where half-assed statements of “remorse” are blindly accepted by the public. I think Comcast is more sincere when they “apologize” during times when my internet is acting up.

 

Sincerity won't get him or any of them out of the doghouse either.

 

In the words of Kenny Wayne Shepherd

 

"Wrong can't be undone". 

 

"Blue on Black... Tears on a river" 

"Push on a shove... It don't mean much" 

 

"Whisper on a scream.. Doesn't mean a thing"

"Don't bring you back... Blue on Black" 

 

I love this song and I think rock songwriters are the greatest philosophers in the world.:)

 

The song basically says it doesn't matter if you are sorry or really really sorry. It's just blue on black. Just shades, degrees that won't make up for the original wrong either way. 

 

In the end... It's up to everyone else to either dwell on it or not. Marwin broke it and he just can't fix it... We have to fix it by just moving on to the next object of our derision. 

 

The guy coming out of prison may be really really sorry, but he won't get a job unless someone chooses not to dwell on whatever he did and give him a job. 

 

In the world of social media. The world will choose to dwell on it in an echo chamber for a period of time, until eventually, we lose our focus on it. 

 

There is nothing that he can say... he's going to wear it for awhile.:)  

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#110 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 02:33 PM

 

I don't agree nothing will change it.
Marwin could say he benefited significantly financially from cheating, and he's therefore donating 20% of his contract to programs for homelessness.

 

I agree that this would be a wonderful thing to do. It might get you specifically on his side along with some others. 

 

But... it won't change it. Only time will heal the wound.  

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#111 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 02:50 PM

 

I feel really sorry for Pete Rose. What he did was far less, and impacted far fewer people than what the Astros players did. 

 

Pete Rose is banned for life from baseball, and Altuve and Bregman are continuing to get paid and play. 

 

That is major injustice IMO.

 

Those were the rules, which he knew. He also had sex with at least one under age girl. So, ya, no.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#112 Trov

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 02:50 PM

I echo what may have said.He truly is not sorry, because "flags fly forever."If he, and all the other players that have and most likely will say they are sorry truly was, they would have pulled the plug before it started.They only stopped because other teams started to figure it out and would change up sequences.Rich Hill, even said he would change up sequence every 6 pitches, and that game he dominated the Astros.So they got to point they started guessing.  

 

Teams learned what was going on sign stealing, they just did not know the extent of technology that was being used.I would not be upset if Twins released Margo for his roll in it, much as managers got the axe.  

 

I think it would be refreshing if someone from the team just said, no I am not sorry we did it, we won so there.I doubt anyone will, but you know they are all thinking it.  


#113 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 02:52 PM

 

Fair enough. As I said in a post above, I saw the two things next to each other and felt like you were suggesting some sort of equivalence between the two. Sorry if I came off as glib or an a-hole.

 

No issue, it's not always easy to parse what is said....but most of the time, there are not hidden meanings in my posts. They are usually quite literal. But you are right, what AP did was worse, for me anyway.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#114 Linus

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:45 PM

The apology is meaningless. My opinions will be based on his actions not his words.

#115 Aerodeliria

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:11 PM

 

It's not subjective. Using technology to steal signs and relay them to the batter in real time is 100% cheating. It's explicitly against the rules. 

 

Your hypothetical scenario is not cheating. Nobody would say that's cheating and it's not against the rules.

 

Well, I should say thank you for this video. He is really clear why this is cheating and how using our own intuition to steal signs is much different. I still wonder exactly what the rule book said, however. Here is an explanation, but all of this arises after the facts, so it's in some ways bogus. I am not saying what the Astros did was justifiable, but they could claim that the rules were not clear enough on what constituted stealing...although some of them felt enough guilt to do a mea culpa. (There are a few articles here and although the video provided is pretty convincing that the rules are clearcut, several of these articles seem to say that the rules were not very clear at all.)

 

https://bleacherrepo...t-sign-stealing

 

https://thebaseballc.../sign-stealing/

 

 


#116 h2oface

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 02:21 AM

 

The sentiment in here that the immunity was justified is hogwash. You don’t pardon capital murder to get details because you’re too sleepy to do the legwork of an investigation. Not to mention, the easiest investigation in the history of investigations. Every square inch of a baseball stadium is likely under surveillance. A guy on Twitter broke it open in an afternoon after work. Mike Fiers knew the whole story and was singing like a canary to the media. Let’s get real, here. There were motives for the immunity beyond some ancillary details, which the commissioners office had no interest in from day 1 (see the “investigations” they performed).

 

I don't read anywhere "here" that the feeling is immunity for the players was justified. It is just acknowledged as it was part of the process. I certainly don't feel it was justified, but once it is on the table, it is part of the story, and is not something to hold against the player. 

 

I find the comparison to capital murder....... especially for stealing signs, which people do from second base all the time.... kind of excessive. I don't think there was even bodily harm of any kind involved.

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#117 cardsfan

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:06 AM

I think this scandal will keep Beltran out of the Hall of Fame and Altuve. I don't see how 75% of voters will vote for these 2.

BtW, Pete Rose was on the HOF ballots for 3 years and he received less than 10% of the vote. If reinstated no guarantee that a future Veterans Committee puts him in.

#118 dex8425

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:53 AM

 

 I am not saying what the Astros did was justifiable, but they could claim that the rules were not clear enough on what constituted stealing...although some of them felt enough guilt to do a mea culpa. (There are a few articles here and although the video provided is pretty convincing that the rules are clearcut, several of these articles seem to say that the rules were not very clear at all.)

 

I do agree with you that the written rules weren't necessarily clear at the time. However, baseball (for some reason) has a LOT of unwritten rules. If you as a batter on second base yell, "curveball coming" to the batter at the plate, well, that's not against any rules. But the batter on second base will most definitely get a fastball to the back his next time up. 

 

Seems like 100% of current and former players also have agreed for years that using technology to steal signs is against the unwritten rules. Now the written rules are clear on this. 

 

Another unwritten rule is that there's some sort of clubhouse code, where you don't rat out fellow baseball brethren. I totally get loyalty but personally I think this rule is stupid as applied to the astros situation. This is why some people were/are mad at Mike Fiers. 

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#119 dantal

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 07:18 PM

What did he mean by, “And some other things”?

#120 cardsfan

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 08:03 AM

I'm wondering if Marwin Gonzales would say anything to fellow Twins players if he noticed the Astros were stealing signs against the Twins? How about when I was facing you Berrios I was tipped off.

Oh, he could pretend not to notice.



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