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Marwin Gonzalez Addresses Media, Expresses Regret

marwin gonzalez jose berrios rich hill
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#81 Tomj14

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 08:07 AM

 

But, I am curious what more people want Marwin Gonzalez (or others) to say at this point?

What I want to them to say or be is honest, I want them to say what Harry Reid said about lying about Romney not paying taxes "Romney didn't win, did he?"

 

I would like Gonzalez and the rest to admit they cheated and they won, simple.

 

Edit: and i will add;they should say if people don't like it blame MLB for being too darn cheap to put an official in the dugout to stop things like this from happening.


#82 scottz

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:06 AM

 

One thing in life to learn is...... you should punish yourself, but you shouldn't keep punishing yourself (or your children) for the same thing, over and over, once you have come clean. Once is enough. All the players got immunity (not their decision) so they would tell the truth in the investigation. Some will try to punish them all year from the stands, like they have never done anything that if the whole stadium knew about, they would be shamed as well. Plus, there will still be a goal to accomplish the same result in stealing signs in other ways. The penalty for doing it electronically aided is clear, but the goal and end result which is the same no matter how you do it will still try to be achieved all year long, every game. 

 

I also don't believe the Astros, Red Sox, and Yankees were/are the only teams doing it in some kind of aided way. Hell, nobody does anything....... until they get caught, eh?

 

Let's play ball.

I agree you shouldn't punish yourself over and over. But what he did isn't what I would call punishing himself even one time. Again, it isn't like I'm suggesting he's not forgiven until every fan says he's forgiven, I'm just that saying "I'm sorry, now let's move on" doesn't really strike me as remorse.

 

I thought the suggestion of selling his World Series ring for charity was an excellent idea. If I worked on Marwin's PR team, I'd push this concept to him to see if he was receptive.

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#83 dex8425

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:15 AM

 

My question has always been the same. What constitutes stealing signs? If I'm a coach and I figure out that cross arms twice then touch nose means "bunt," and I signal the 3rd baseman to move in, will I be in trouble? I doubt it. I am wondering how "stealing" is actually defined. How are the lines drawn? I have a feeling that it is quite subjective.

It's not subjective. Using technology to steal signs and relay them to the batter in real time is 100% cheating. It's explicitly against the rules. 

 

Your hypothetical scenario is not cheating. Nobody would say that's cheating and it's not against the rules.

 

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#84 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:19 AM

I don’t see how beating your child with a switch and stealing signs during a baseball game are worthy of the same level of derision, but I guess it’s your choice how to feel.


I didn't say any such thing. Not even close. I said I wouldn't be rooting for Marwin.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#85 dex8425

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:19 AM

 

I think auctioning off a World Series ring for charity would really say "I'm sorry."

Didn't Jose Canseco do that? Or did he just sell it?


#86 IAMNFan

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:19 AM

 

I appreciate that he discussed it at all. However...

  • "...he communicated through the Twins that it would be the last time he addressed the topic this season."

"I'm sorry. But now that it's behind us, let's all just move on. I'm remorseful. I'm just not *that* remorseful."

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________

 

So if he continued to talk about it, he would be more remorseful?

 

I bet the Twins want this behind them also.Why let this tarnish what is about to be a top 10 season, potentially, in club history?

 


#87 IAMNFan

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:38 AM

 

I agree with your second sentence above. The second paragraph is true.

 

But, I am curious what more people want Marwin Gonzalez (or others) to say at this point? He expressed regret. He can't really do any more than that.

The Commish represents the owners.He is just a puppet.So saying the Commish is clueless is saying the owners of a top 3 sports organization are clueless.Is that what you are saying?I would guess if there was a majority of the owners who were dissatisfied with the Commish, he would have been sent packing at this point.  

I question the other teams more myself.Why didn't they adapt, if they knew it was going on?Twins of 2017, look pretty inept in this scenario.Berrios looks awful.Why weren't they able to change things up?  

Everyone's personal responsibility in this matter was/is questionable.

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#88 TFRazor

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:38 AM

At least Marwin apologized. More than you can say for Altuve and Bregman

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#89 Blake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:40 AM

 

Players were granted immunity at the start of the investigation, in an attempt to get to the truth. 

 

In addition, the letter the commissioner sent out in 2017, specifically addressing this issue, make clear GMs and Managers would be held accountable for violations.

This reminds me of what I used to tell my kids when they were growing up.

 

I'd tell them, "It's not a matter of whether or not I know what you're up to, it's a matter of whether I'll say anything about what you're up to."

 

Sounds like clubs were warned to knock it off and ignored the warning.

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#90 woolywoolhouse

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:41 AM

Former MLB pitcher Mike Bolsinger is suing the 2017 Astros. He pitched one inning in relief for Toronto in Houston in August 2017, was lit up for 4 runs, and was immediately sent down to the minors. He never pitched another MLB inning again. 

 

https://www.washingt...-now-hes-suing/

 

I checked out that inning at http://signstealings...b_houmlb_1.html and Marwin saw three pitches from Bolsinger. Two breaking balls and the third pitch was a fastball Marwin pulled into the right-field seats for a three-run homer. You can watch Marwin's at-bat here - https://www.youtube....jm2oglGw&t=5663. There are no bangs during Marwin's at-bat (with a runner on second, the catcher was mixing up the signs) but the two runners on base for his homerun both were recipients of trash-can bangs (that led to a single for Reddick and a walk for Gurriel.)

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#91 scottz

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:41 AM

 

So if he continued to talk about it, he would be more remorseful?

 

I bet the Twins want this behind them also.Why let this tarnish what is about to be a top 10 season, potentially, in club history?

My comment you quoted was my first in this thread. Like many of my comments on this site, I throw a bit of my humor onto it. I have since added many others that give my opinion in more plain language and detail.

1 Corinthians 2: 11 - For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?

Marwin knows whether he is remorseful. However, if you say you are remorseful and then also say you won't talk about it anymore, you're not expressing remorse. You're expressing that you want it to go away.

I actually believe he is remorseful, and I think commenters who have questioned what they would have done in the same situation are wise. It's impossible to say the wrong we would do until we find ourselves in the situation where we are presented with "benefits" and don't fully analyze what the potential negatives are if discovered. That's just being human.

I currently work in communications, and for a few years worked in "strategic communications" (you can think of that as similar to public relations). I know why Marwin handled it how he did. That's PR. I get it. But it is not what I would advise.

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#92 Blake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:48 AM

 

My comment you quoted was my first in this thread. Like many of my comments on this site, I throw a bit of my humor onto it. I have since added many others that give my opinion in more plain language and detail.

1 Corinthians 2: 11 - For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?

Marwin knows whether he is remorseful. However, if you say you are remorseful and then also say you won't talk about it anymore, you're not expressing remorse. You're expressing that you want it to go away.

I actually believe he is remorseful, and I think commenters who have questioned what they would have done in the same situation are wise. It's impossible to say the wrong we would do until we find ourselves in the situation where we are presented with "benefits" and don't fully analyze what the potential negatives are if discovered. That's just being human.

I currently work in communications, and for a few years worked in "strategic communications" (you can think of that as similar to public relations). I know why Marwin handled it how he did. That's PR. I get it. But it is not what I would advise.

I think your original point about showing remorse by offering to renegotiate or give some contract dollars back was spot on.


#93 scottz

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:01 AM

 

I think your original point about showing remorse by offering to renegotiate or give some contract dollars back was spot on.

I think this is an incorrect attribution. I agreed with the poster who suggested Marwin sell his WS ring and donate to charity. I think that's a fine idea. I'm also ok with some sort of fine, though because the players were given immunity, I think that ship has sailed. Whatever amends a player makes now has to be done outside of MLB's purview.

 

I think renegotiating a contract would be a legal fiasco, and maybe not even allowed by the union.


#94 Blake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:04 AM

 

I think this is an incorrect attribution. I agreed with the poster who suggested Marwin sell his WS ring and donate to charity. I think that's a fine idea. I'm also ok with some sort of fine, though because the players were given immunity, I think that ship has sailed. Whatever amends a player makes now has to be done outside of MLB's purview.

 

I think renegotiating a contract would be a legal fiasco, and maybe not even allowed by the union.

Fair enough.


#95 spycake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:10 AM

 

I'm not entirely sure, having not reviewed the MLBPA contract (I'm a criminal defense lawyer, so contract law understanding is essentially confined to law school for me). I also haven't seen Gonzalez' contract or any other subsequently signed player participant's contract. But it seems to me that the contracts the players subsequently signed could be voided as they were bargained for based partially on fraudulent statistical data. Hell, Gonzalez has a career season, admits to cheating, and it seems to me the Twins should have a right to recovery.

 

Any contract attorneys on this site able to chime in?

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

 

But my understanding is that the contracts are pretty specific, and can only be voided if a team can prove the player engaged in specifically prohibited activities -- like the Yankees did with Aaron Boone, when he injured himself in a basketball game after his contract forbade him from playing basketball.

 

There's also something called the "morals clause" and teams have tried to use this against players who get in legal trouble (recall Sidney Ponson punching a judge!). But generally, teams haven't been too successful at that, because it's much more of a judgement call -- at best, they maybe save a couple mil in a settlement with the player to terminate the contract.

 

If there was any case to be made to void the deal of a player who cheated and put up "fraudulent" statistics, I'm sure it would have happened a million times over by now. Recall how Ervin Santana was suspended for PEDs before he even threw a single pitch on his Twins FA contract.

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#96 jbissell

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:11 AM

I feel really sorry for Pete Rose. What he did was far less, and impacted far fewer people than what the Astros players did. 

 

Pete Rose is banned for life from baseball, and Altuve and Bregman are continuing to get paid and play. 

 

That is major injustice IMO.

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#97 spycake

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:16 AM

 

I feel really sorry for Pete Rose. What he did was far less, and impacted far fewer people than what the Astros players did. 

 

Pete Rose is banned for life from baseball, and Altuve and Bregman are continuing to get paid and play. 

 

That is major injustice IMO.

I don't think it's an injustice at all.

 

I don't like what the Astros did, but they essentially cheated to get ahead, like many players have before them (steroid users, ball scuffers, etc.).

 

Rose bet on his own team's games. That's a whole different animal. And the rules and precedent on gambling are pretty clear.

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#98 Bomba2026

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:35 AM

I would have said...Yeah they suck and that is why I got the hell off that team asap...If your boss is stealing money at work, sometimes speaking up isn't the easiest thing to do if you need a job. The best thing is to leave and do the Annonie note I guess...I don't think all the Astro players were ok with cheating, but I'm hoping to hear them say this! And if Marwin got more trash can bangs than anyone else, I guess he would have been a better hitter and still be with them....

#99 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:51 AM

So much this... we as a society have a forgiveness problem, and there's literally nothing anyone can do to earn that forgiveness once a line has been crossed.

The truth is that none of us know if Marwin is contrite or not... and nothing will change it if he is or is not... accept it and move on.


I don't agree nothing will change it.
Marwin could say he benefited significantly financially from cheating, and he's therefore donating 20% of his contract to programs for homelessness.
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#100 IAMNFan

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:00 AM

 

My comment you quoted was my first in this thread. Like many of my comments on this site, I throw a bit of my humor onto it. I have since added many others that give my opinion in more plain language and detail.

1 Corinthians 2: 11 - For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?

Marwin knows whether he is remorseful. However, if you say you are remorseful and then also say you won't talk about it anymore, you're not expressing remorse. You're expressing that you want it to go away.

I actually believe he is remorseful, and I think commenters who have questioned what they would have done in the same situation are wise. It's impossible to say the wrong we would do until we find ourselves in the situation where we are presented with "benefits" and don't fully analyze what the potential negatives are if discovered. That's just being human.

I currently work in communications, and for a few years worked in "strategic communications" (you can think of that as similar to public relations). I know why Marwin handled it how he did. That's PR. I get it. But it is not what I would advise.

My advice would be different.Address it and move on.Keep talking about it only affects the current and this transgression is in the past.Like serving on a board of directors, the time to debate is during the time allowed for debate.Once the board makes a decision, it is the boards responsibility to move forward as a united group with that decision per Roberts Rules of Order.

 

His contract, I'm pretty sure was discussed in another thread.2017 was an outlier for him and someone discussed that his current deal was more relevant than not.I'm good with that explanation also.

 

It's going to be a fun season.I'm happy we have him.I'm more happy that he addressed it and I hope that is the end of the distraction for the team.




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