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Proposed Playoff Expansion with a Reality TV Twist

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#81 Shaitan

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 08:00 PM

 

TWITTER WAS INVENTED BY THE DEVIL AND WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL!!1!

I would have argued against that statement...5 years ago.


#82 Shaitan

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 08:04 PM

 

Which in no way imparts incremental value to his statement.It would be quite easy for Bauer to write a blog post and tweet a link to it.Any number of baseball themed publications would be only too happy to publish the entirety of his rationale if he sent it to them.The lack of specificity in Bauer's message is not because he is constrained from sharing it in any way; until he does share specifics, I remain convinced that he is being petulant and childish, and his opinion carries absolutely no weight whatsoever with me.

I strongly dislike Bauer as a person.

 

But that's what Twitter is used for and I'm not trying to opine on his comment. I am saying to consider the platform in addition to the source. It's a social media platform, not a blog or baseball themed publication.

 


#83 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:49 AM

 

 

Dan has several long threads on this. He's right about all of them (in terms of incentives).

 

I'll admit I haven't read any of them, and don't have the time now--I'll attempt to get to them sometime.That being said, baseball is in danger of becoming hockey if it doesn't actively attempt to find ways to engage with more than just the die-hards.Is it better to change something to keep it, or preserve something to lose it?


#84 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:55 AM

 

I strongly dislike Bauer as a person.

 

But that's what Twitter is used for and I'm not trying to opine on his comment. I am saying to consider the platform in addition to the source. It's a social media platform, not a blog or baseball themed publication.

 

I feel like you missed what I posted.Twitter in no way prevented him from expounding on any of his views.Blaming twitter for Bauer not providing any rationale for his opinion is a nonsensical argument, as there are multiple ways to more elaborately discourse on a subject on the twitter platform.Bauer's failure to explain even a single reason why he dislikes this proposal is in no way a result of his desire to tweet.It is a result of Bauer either not having a reason to dislike the proposal but wanting to antagonize Mannfred, Bauer not having the ability to expound on his reasons but wanting to antagonize Mannfred, or Bauer not caring to take the time to explain his reasons but wanting to antagonize Mannfred.No matter which of the three cases it is, twitter is not to blame.


#85 cardsfan

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:44 AM

The pitchers mound has changed a handful of times, 1893, 1904, 1950 and 1968. That is one of the rule changes I can get behind.

Oh, and the experimental rules continue this year too. https://ballparkdige...d-back-to-2020/
https://bosoxinjecti...-mound-history/

But, not the distance.

#86 KirbyDome89

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:54 PM

 

I don't see what the huge uproar is all about. I'm old school, but They're not going back to 2 leagues, winners make the WS. Expansion of the postseason has been going on for a long time now, and further expansion is probably inevitable.

 

They'd be adding 2 teams per league to the postseason, which is probably a bad idea overall, but understandable from a money and marketing perspective. If they're going to add 2 teams, this isn't a terrible idea. I actually like the idea of the better teams getting the chance to pick their opponant. Best record, and winning your division, would still matter. Best of three instead of 1 game shots for the first round.

I don't hate the idea of higher seeds choosing their opponent but I think having 7 teams per league is too much. You're right, MLB isn't going to go backwards, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere right? If they continue to inch away from regular season relevance at some point they'll find themselves at a point where a 162 game season largely doesn't matter. I understand the tv and marketing aspect, but it feels like a very short term view, where the actual health of the game is being sacrificed for a quick buck.


#87 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 08:32 PM

 


Specifically the pennant race in September. I’m not excited about watching 2-3 82 win teams fight for the last playoff spot.

 

Unless of course that it is your team representing one of the 2 or 3 82 win teams that are fighting for that last playoff spot.  

 

I'm pretty confident that the Pittsburgh Steelers faithful were checking the playoff scenarios with a 8-7 record going into that last game of the season just like all of us Viking fans do whenever we are hoping Atlanta loses or ties and Philadelphia Wins so we can get that last spot via tiebreaker.  

 

I'm pretty confident that interest in the Pirates is going to hold through September when they have a similiear 73-71 record with 20 games to go just the same. 

 

I'm pretty confident that Arizona State Basketball fans were checking out the bracketology on pins and needles, going over the scenarios it would take for the Sun Devils to get an invite to the dance just for that 11th seed. Dying a little while they wonder if that loss in the PAC conference tourney cost them. The D-Back Fans will do the same all the way through September. 

 

35 years later, The typical long time college basketball fan still remembers the 1985 Cinderella story of Rollie and Villanova winning it all as an 8th seed while Patrick Ewing wondered what happened. Nobody resented Villanova winning it all, the majority of us loved it. We may not remember the exact year but we remember the team without aid of research. 

 

37 Years later... Who could forget Jimmy V looking for someone to hug in 1983 after the 6th Seeded NC State Wolfpack beat that loaded Houston team with Clyde and Akeem. 

 

In contrast... 36 Years later in 1984... People have to turn to Wikipedia to remember that Georgetown won a title in between NC State and Villanova. 

 

NCAA basketball was 53 teams back then... It's now up to 68 teams and there are no scars on it's body. 

 

Are we really afraid that a 82 win team could win it all. We shouldn't be afraid of that, we should be hoping for it. 

 

September 1st with only 5 teams truly out of contention means 25 fan bases with a reason to get up in the morning and pay attention. That is good for the sport... that is tremendous for the sport. 

 

Now of course, that many teams in contention will absolutely change the trade deadline experience as we know it, less teams selling and more teams buying is going to be bone breaking change. However, the trade off is that less teams will be tanking as a result and it will narrow the have/have not gap that has been entrenched for decades in the game of baseball. 

 

I'm in.:)

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#88 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 08:43 PM

 

What the playoffs does do, however, is keep the drama going essentially until the final 2-3 games of the season, at worst.Oftentimes, the drama goes into the final game, and sometimes even the final inning or final pitch.This is something that is never guaranteed with leagues that crown a winner without playoffs--look at this year's EPL for example.With 13 matches left, Liverpool has a 22 point lead (the equivalent of 7 matches).That season is all but over--the only drama left is who will get relegated, and whether or not Liverpool can finish without a loss.

 

This new proposal does a few positive things;

 

1--It makes races at the top of each league hugely intense.There is now a gigantic advantage to climbing up each rung of the ladder--1st seed gets a bye, 2nd seed gets their pick of any opponent, 3rd seed gets to choose an opponent, and 4th seed gets home-field advantage.

 

2--It incentivizes more teams in the 75-80 win range to try to get to the 80-85 win range, particularly if you re-wrote the rules to make playoff revenue shareable only amongst teams who make the playoffs.If 14 teams make the playoffs, and split lets say a couple of hundred million dollars, making the playoffs or not is now worth an extra $10-$15M for a team

 

3--It keeps more fans interested.From a national perspective, not many fans might have cared if the White Sox or the Angels could chase down the Rangers for the 7th spot last year.Were I a White Sox or Angels fan, I may have wanted them to NOT chase down the Rangers.But a lot of other people would, and they would buy a lot more tickets, concessions, and merch than I would.Increased bottom lines for more teams is theoretically, a good thing.

 

4--It should help hasten rebuilds.With more teams trying to improve before the trade deadline, and therefore fewer teams with players on the market, the price goes up, meaning tanking teams can more quickly accumulate assets, and resume competing for the playoffs.Unless an organization is just terribly run, decade-long rebuilds will be a thing of the past.

 

One of the problems that baseball has right now is that too many teams have figured out that winning is not the best way To Win.This, at least in my opinion, reduces the population of that lower class.The Royals, Orioles, and Tigers will all still tank, but every other team will want a playoff spot, and the millions of extra revenue that come with it.

 

This post is so beautiful it could win at the Westminster Kennel Club. 

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#89 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 08:50 PM

That’s the hope, RB. Where more teams try to improve a .500 team to be just a tiny bit better and make the playoffs. I don’t think it will actually happen, because it’s easier to sell than it is to buy.

Let’s look back to the 2015 Twins, whom, if this rule were implemented then would be a playoff team. Did they feel like a playoff team with one brilliant month of May, and the rest of the time .500 or below? Would more fans advocate trading Kepler+ for Troy Tulowitzki? I know I was ready to push the chips in then, and most likely regret it now.

It’s the easy pitch to say the .500 team doesn’t have a chance against the 90+ win teams. That’s the safe bet. Analytics tells us not to take the chance and build for a future strike...

#90 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:02 PM

 

That’s the hope, RB. Where more teams try to improve a .500 team to be just a tiny bit better and make the playoffs. I don’t think it will actually happen, because it’s easier to sell than it is to buy.

Let’s look back to the 2015 Twins, whom, if this rule were implemented then would be a playoff team. Did they feel like a playoff team with one brilliant month of May, and the rest of the time .500 or below? Would more fans advocate trading Kepler+ for Troy Tulowitzki? I know I was ready to push the chips in then, and most likely regret it now.

It’s the easy pitch to say the .500 team doesn’t have a chance against the 90+ win teams. That’s the safe bet. Analytics tells us not to take the chance and build for a future strike...

 

They won't be able to buy.

 

Tulo's price just went way up past the Kepler mark due to supply and demand. The Trade deadline will experience bone breaking change. We won't recognize it afterwards.

 

 

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

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#91 Sconnie

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 12:01 PM

But, not the distance.

nope, distance has changed too.

#92 cardsfan

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 02:42 PM

nope, distance has changed too.

By 1893 the distance was 60'6".

#93 Sconnie

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 03:49 PM

By 1893 the distance was 60'6".

1893 was the change from 55’6” to 60’6”.

#94 70charger

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 04:33 PM

I know I'm late to the game here, but relegation doesn't work with a draft. Full stop.

 

You think some minor league team is gonna pony up the $10 million it takes to get the top pick? First of all, where is that money coming from if you're a minor league team? Second of all, broadcast revenues for everyone that isn't the Yankees will plummet because there's no guarantee they won't be a AA team three years from now. Third of all, how is it fair to send some draft pick or top prospect, who may be ready for the highest levels of competition right now, to some team that manages to be worse than the present-day Marlins?

 

And what happens when you have promotion/relegation without a draft? Well, obviously the Yankees win every year. And if not them, I guess pick between the Dodgers and Red Sox. Maybe the Yankees had an off day in the playoffs, who knows?

 

Want to know what happens with a promotion relegation system with no draft? Check this out: https://en.wikipedia...tball_champions. What's that? Barcelona won again? Weird. I can't think of how, since they've only won 10 out of the last 15. I wonder what happened. Oh, was it Madrid that won? Gosh, that's weird too. They've won the other 5. You literally have to go back most of a decade to find a team outside the top two cities that has won. Teams from Barcelona and Madrid have won 69 championships since 1929, including 43 of the last 50. Literally all the other teams combined have won 19 total over most of a century.

 

I don't want a league like that. It legitimately shocks me that anyone in Spain gives a ****.