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Twins beat Berrios at arb hearing

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#1 USAFChief

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 04:22 PM

In a departure from all things Grateral/Maeda all the time, Heyman (per MLBTradeRumors) is reporting the Twins won their arb hearing with Berrios, and will pay him $4.025M this year instead of $4.4M.

 

I mean, I guess...but it has a sort of "penny wise, pound foolish" feel to me. 

 

Adds more to my gut feeling that a Berrios extension just ain't happenin'.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

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#2 Sssuperdave

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 04:31 PM

Color me surprised. When was the last time the Twins went all the way to a hearing? I vaguely remember a story about Torri Hunter signing a contract literally outside the courtroom door. Maybe Garza? Or Perkins?

 

Doesn't look good for Berrios staying with the Twins past the arbitration years.


#3 Doctor Gast

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 04:53 PM

Sorry to hear that

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#4 h2oface

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 04:59 PM

Cheap cheap cheap. Spend Millions on lesser vets, and alienate your best pitcher.All over $375K? Just cheap and not very smart, if you want the player to stay with you. 

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#5 bighat

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:09 PM

Slow down everyone -

 

The Twins have to play it this way. Otherwise, they'll set a precedent that other teams/players will use to offset their hearings moving forward. Essentially, in order to provide a united front, all teams must approach arbitration hearings in this fashion. Sometimes you hear "It's not about the money" - and you know it's about the money. In this case, it really wasn't about the money.

 

This write-up from MLB Trade Rumors explains:

 

"The Twins, like other clubs that have drawn a hard line in comparable situations, surely care less about immediate cost savings than they do about preserving the standards that allow arbitration salaries to remain so manageable.

If the Twins (and every other club) simply conceded and met the player in the middle, those contractual agreements would be used as data points in future arbitration negotiations. Were it not for teams continually drawing a hard line, the Twins and Berrios would’ve been arguing over figures much greater than the ones discussed in today’s hearing. That’s not to suggest that teams are in the right or wrong to take such firm stances — even against their best players — but rather to point out that their motivation for doing so is rather obvious when considering the full breadth of the arbitration mechanism."

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#6 jkcarew

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:13 PM

 

Adds more to my gut feeling that a Berrios extension just ain't happenin'.

I agree. FWIW, I base that on the fact that 2020 went all the way to arbitration. Not on the outcome of the arbitration.

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#7 jkcarew

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:23 PM

 

Slow down everyone -

 

The Twins have to play it this way. Otherwise, they'll set a precedent that other teams/players will use to offset their hearings moving forward. Essentially, in order to provide a united front, all teams must approach arbitration hearings in this fashion. Sometimes you hear "It's not about the money" - and you know it's about the money. In this case, it really wasn't about the money.

 

This write-up from MLB Trade Rumors explains:

 

"The Twins, like other clubs that have drawn a hard line in comparable situations, surely care less about immediate cost savings than they do about preserving the standards that allow arbitration salaries to remain so manageable.

If the Twins (and every other club) simply conceded and met the player in the middle, those contractual agreements would be used as data points in future arbitration negotiations. Were it not for teams continually drawing a hard line, the Twins and Berrios would’ve been arguing over figures much greater than the ones discussed in today’s hearing. That’s not to suggest that teams are in the right or wrong to take such firm stances — even against their best players — but rather to point out that their motivation for doing so is rather obvious when considering the full breadth of the arbitration mechanism."

Yep. Arbitration is a very well-defined process. The process is the process, the steps the steps. It could even be looked at as a 'positive' that the Twins came in so close to the number Berrios's team presented. But, I can't help feeling that there is a 'bad' to this...that being simply that it got all the way to arbitration. This might have been an opportunity to get parties to talk extension...but it seems likely that nothing must have been imminent along those lines. At least to me.

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#8 bighat

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:29 PM

 

Yep. Arbitration is a very well-defined process. The process is the process, the steps the steps. It could even be looked at as a 'positive' that the Twins came in so close to the number Berrios's team presented. But, I can't help feeling that there is a 'bad' to this...that being simply that it got all the way to arbitration. This might have been an opportunity to get parties to talk extension...but it seems likely that nothing must have been imminent along those lines. At least to me.

Oh I agree 100% that there's some "bad" to this, it's unfortunate that Berrios gets labeled a "loser" and the Twins a "winner" in a battle of money. It has to create a bit of a wedge, I'm sure.

 

I don't think this necessarily changes extension talks as they stand. Frankly, I think Berrios is going to be VERY hard to extend and that he wants to pitch in New York or LA and get Wheeler/Cole money while he's at it. He's very talented and he's very driven, I can see him wanting out of what some consider to be an MLB backwater.

 

Winning or going to a World Series AND forking up Wheeler-like money in extension talks will be needed to retain Berrios I'm afraid.


#9 laloesch

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:42 PM

Not a good sign. Berrios is a goner after arbitration I think.
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#10 Danchat

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:58 PM

Darren Wolfson had said yesterday on the radio that the Twins and Berrios are still far apart on an extension, but there's "no bad blood there". It didn't seem like the arbitration disagreement affected anything. He did mention that Berrios would not be accepting a team-friendly deal and is looking to reset the "arb-extension" market if he does sign.

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#11 h2oface

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 06:21 PM

 

Slow down everyone -

 

The Twins have to play it this way. Otherwise, they'll set a precedent that other teams/players will use to offset their hearings moving forward. Essentially, in order to provide a united front, all teams must approach arbitration hearings in this fashion. Sometimes you hear "It's not about the money" - and you know it's about the money. In this case, it really wasn't about the money.

 

This write-up from MLB Trade Rumors explains:

 

"The Twins, like other clubs that have drawn a hard line in comparable situations, surely care less about immediate cost savings than they do about preserving the standards that allow arbitration salaries to remain so manageable.

If the Twins (and every other club) simply conceded and met the player in the middle, those contractual agreements would be used as data points in future arbitration negotiations. Were it not for teams continually drawing a hard line, the Twins and Berrios would’ve been arguing over figures much greater than the ones discussed in today’s hearing. That’s not to suggest that teams are in the right or wrong to take such firm stances — even against their best players — but rather to point out that their motivation for doing so is rather obvious when considering the full breadth of the arbitration mechanism."

 

Nobody has to ever stay "in the box". Especially for only $375K. This was a choice, and you may have the correct reasons, but it is still a choice. You never have to stay with the "group". Never. Unless it is collusion. Then you will always do it.

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#12 USAFChief

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:26 PM

Slow down everyone -

The Twins have to play it this way. Otherwise, they'll set a precedent that other teams/players will use to offset their hearings moving forward. Essentially, in order to provide a united front, all teams must approach arbitration hearings in this fashion. Sometimes you hear "It's not about the money" - and you know it's about the money. In this case, it really wasn't about the money.

This write-up from MLB Trade Rumors explains:

"The Twins, like other clubs that have drawn a hard line in comparable situations, surely care less about immediate cost savings than they do about preserving the standards that allow arbitration salaries to remain so manageable.
If the Twins (and every other club) simply conceded and met the player in the middle, those contractual agreements would be used as data points in future arbitration negotiations. Were it not for teams continually drawing a hard line, the Twins and Berrios would’ve been arguing over figures much greater than the ones discussed in today’s hearing. That’s not to suggest that teams are in the right or wrong to take such firm stances — even against their best players — but rather to point out that their motivation for doing so is rather obvious when considering the full breadth of the arbitration mechanism."

Eh...

Teams and arb eligible players settle all the time. When was the last Twins hearing? What was so special about THIS one?

$375k isnt resetting the arb market much.
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#13 ashbury

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:35 PM

Eh...

Teams and arb eligible players settle all the time. When was the last Twins hearing? What was so special about THIS one?

$375k isnt resetting the arb market much.

Yeah, the respective numbers we saw are the type where usually the two sides nearly fall over each other to be the first to say "meh, just split the difference?" The fact this didn't happen makes me assume there is some underlying reason, one we would find disquieting if we knew.

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#14 howieramone2

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:39 PM

The Twins did the right thing.You heard it here first, by the time Berrois is able to walk, our favorite team won't skip a beat.
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#15 DocBauer

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:27 PM

Yeah, the respective numbers we saw are the type where usually the two sides nearly fall over each other to be the first to say "meh, just split the difference?" The fact this didn't happen makes me assume there is some underlying reason, one we would find disquieting if we knew.


Or, there was no feeling a settlement needed to be worked out at this time as the Twins FO remains confident they will work out an extension at some point here which very likely raises his 2020 salary anyway.
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#16 USAFChief

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:41 PM

Or, there was no feeling a settlement needed to be worked out at this time as the Twins FO remains confident they will work out an extension at some point here which very likely raises his 2020 salary anyway.

that sounds more like a reason to give Berrios his asking price than not to.
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#17 Dantes929

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:46 PM

I heard they were ready to sign a compromise but the Twins looked at his medical records and determined that he was not suited fora 250-270 inning workload.

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#18 twinsnorth49

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:49 PM

Thinking Berrios is going to harbour ill feelings over 375K is as silly as thinking the Twins are cheap for not givingit to him. Money talks, if an extension works out with terms Berrios is happy with, there is no reason he won't stay, certainly not this reason. 

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#19 akmanak

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 05:55 AM

Berrios in the past called the Twins put on spending habits. This year they opened their wallet and shelled out some moolah.

With that said Berrios has nothing to complain about and from how the off-season has turned out you would think there is a good chance they give him some decent money to stay.
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#20 Shane Wahl

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 08:08 AM

After the 2020 season is the perfect time to extend. The two sides will be much closer to each other.