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Is Marwin Gonzalez a lock to make the roster?

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#21 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 06:17 PM

Is there such thing as forgiveness??
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#22 Sconnie

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 06:54 PM

It never occurred to me that Marwin might not be a lock until the OP.

There’s now a shadow of a doubt in my mind...

#23 notoriousgod71

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 07:37 PM

I wonder if the Astros board is discussing whether Altuve and Springer should be on the roster this season.

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#24 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 07:46 PM

 

Yes, the Houston stuff is a stain on him, but he seems like the kind of teammate that will address it with his peers, just not the media and fans.  

 

So, he's going to acknowledge that he cheated all of MLB to his teammates?

 

He did the trash can thing more than any other player on the Astros according to a guy who carefully analyzed all available video/audio. And it really helped Marwin's game.

 

There are times in life when you cross a threshold of integrity, of pretending to be one thing and knowing deep-down that you are someone completely different. If that gulf means nothing at that time, how do you now get your self-respect and integrity back?

 

It's a major character flaw that can't be repaired, IMHO. Not when you did it in front of the entire world.

 

Winning the World Series with Marwin playing any kind of role on the Twins at this point is just bad karma. Move on from him.

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#25 ewen21

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:06 PM

 

So, he's going to acknowledge that he cheated all of MLB to his teammates?

 

He did the trash can thing more than any other player on the Astros according to a guy who carefully analyzed all available video/audio. And it really helped Marwin's game.

 

There are times in life when you cross a threshold of integrity, of pretending to be one thing and knowing deep-down that you are someone completely different. If that gulf means nothing at that time, how do you now get your self-respect and integrity back?

 

It's a major character flaw that can't be repaired, IMHO. Not when you did it in front of the entire world.

 

Winning the World Series with Marwin playing any kind of role on the Twins at this point is just bad karma. Move on from him.

I know he got a few hits in the Yankees series (which is more than I can say for anyone not name Arraez or CRuz), but something about him during that series rubbed me the wrong way.Giggling at first base with the Yankees during all that a few times just stuck in my craw.

 

Discard him.I don't want him on this team, not in light of that breakdown of how involved he was.


#26 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:25 PM

I wonder if the Astros board is discussing whether Altuve and Springer should be on the roster this season.


Altuve and Stringer aren't 93 OPS+ utility players.
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#27 jorgenswest

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:33 PM

 

I wonder if the Astros board is discussing whether Altuve and Springer should be on the roster this season.

 

I wouldn't be for those two on the Twins board either.

 

He is a corner player likely to have an OPS around .730 at age 31. The super utility player with a .900 OPS is not returning. 

 

Reading through comments I do believe he is the best 4th OF option but he has little room to decline and Kirilloff or Larnach could be ready by midseason.


#28 stringer bell

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 10:30 PM

It's up to the league to discipline any players involved, not the teams. Gonzalez was a good, well respected teammate, who was valuable on the 2019 Twins team. I would expect a similar performance this year in probably fewer plate appearances. 

 

If the league does nothing, Gonzalez' penalty will come with his next contract, most likely. At 32, he may not even get a major league contract especially if his offense doesn't improve in 2020, and his spike in 2017 will be chalked up to cheating.

 

Before we get too ethical, remember there are three other players on the roster who were suspending for cheating with PEDs or their masking agent. Whether cheating with drugs or stealing pitches, IMHO cheating is cheating. If we can forgive Cruz, Polanco and Pineda maybe the same should be done for Gonzalez.

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#29 SQUIRREL

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 10:45 PM

It's up to the league to discipline any players involved, not the teams. Gonzalez was a good, well respected teammate, who was valuable on the 2019 Twins team. I would expect a similar performance this year in probably fewer plate appearances.

If the league does nothing, Gonzalez' penalty will come with his next contract, most likely. At 32, he may not even get a major league contract especially if his offense doesn't improve in 2020, and his spike in 2017 will be chalked up to cheating.

Before we get too ethical, remember there are three other players on the roster who were suspending for cheating with PEDs or their masking agent. Whether cheating with drugs or stealing pitches, IMHO cheating is cheating. If we can forgive Cruz, Polanco and Pineda maybe the same should be done for Gonzalez.

That’s not really the same thing ... Polanco, Cruz and Pineda faced penalties for what they did. Some could argue it wasn’t enough, but they faced charges according to the rules. No players have yet to be punished for their part in the sign-stealing cheating. I agree that after this contract, Marwin’s career could be over, so maybe the league will take care of it that way. But until which time the league decides what to do with players involved, or his play on field declines, or his presence is an actual disruption in the clubhouse (and not our speculation that it will be), the FO will not do anything but let it play out. So, he’s on the team until he isn’t.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But a skunkweed will always be a skunkweed and instantly recognizable. 


#30 Shane Wahl

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:09 PM

Absolutely a lock, and all of the reasons mentioned are good ones. And his defensive value should not be understated. April was terrible in 2019, and has been a problem throughout his career. Of course he should also be trade bait at some point, barring injury to regulars. 


#31 Seth Stohs

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:48 PM

Short Answer: Of course he'll be on the roster... 

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#32 Twodogs

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 02:31 AM

I'm pretty sure every single twins player knew about the Astros sign stealing. I'm sure Marwin told everyone about it from the get go. I mean they play Houston. "Yeah Verlander likes to go off-speed in this count; oh and by the way, when I was in Houston they used to bang a trash can when the off speed was coming also.". I mean these players wouldnt hide any secrets if it helped his new team, beat his old team that decided not to re-sign him!!! Come on just because we found out now, doesn't mean that the players across the league just found out.

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#33 howieramone2

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 03:43 AM

Baseball isn't Sunday School.

#34 jud6312

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:13 AM

Unless he gets injured or the clubhouse does a complete 180 on him, he's about as close to a lock as there is for the Opening Day roster.

 

I expect the bench is set: Avila, Adrianza, Cave, Marwin.

 

The only question becomes of the 26th spot is for an extra bench bat or bullpen arm to start the season.

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#35 Cody Pirkl

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:23 AM

There is absolutely no way he's not on the roster this season. You don't have to like it, but he could be starting for a good amount of MLB teams and he showed how valuable he is last season when he filled in everywhere for injuries. I get that he cheated with the Astros in 2017, but he's not cheating now. It's pretty difficult to forgive guys like Polanco, Cruz, etc. for their use of banned substances and turn around and say "get this guy off my team" for breaking the rules in a different way.

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#36 Number3

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:34 AM

All I know is that the Twins rode their pre All Star record to the Central title last year. While Sano was recovering from a wound from being knocked off of a stairway during a celebration, guess who was the regular third baseman. For those who can't believe that a MLB team could possibly try to steal signs in a covert manner, I direct you to a recent interview by an ex player who said. it has always been common and many teams had all kinds of schemes including one he played on managed by a now hall of fame manager. No different than the (wind) fans that were turned on during Twins' turns at the plate in the Metro Dome. Oh, that never happened.


#37 SQUIRREL

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:34 AM

 

 

It's pretty difficult to forgive guys like Polanco, Cruz, etc. for their use of banned substances and turn around and say "get this guy off my team" for breaking the rules in a different way.

 

Well ... I'm gonna say this again when I did a couple of posts ago. There is a huge difference there. Polanco, Pineda, Cruz were caught and punished according to MLB rules. They paid a price for what they did and 'served their time.' They were named publicly and were fined. Some could argue it wasn't enough, but they faced some form of punishment. Gonzalez? What was his punishment? MLB has levied nothing against him nor have I heard any kind of acknowledgement from him. It's likely that acknowledgement will come privately, if at all, and perhaps already has. Or maybe the full investigation needs to be completed before anyone says anything. Don't know. But MLB has done nothing so far to any players involved when it was the players who were just as complicit as those who have already been suspended a year. I agree, you can't suspend an entire team just before the season starts, but ... what have these guys faced? They aren't getting their championships vacated. So ... there's really a difference here. Maybe they should all be fined any amount of money they received for winning the WS. And turn in their rings. The title will still be theirs in the record books, with an asterisk, but everything else should be returned as a fine. Of course, we haven't heard how widespread this is, yet. But there is a difference between the players named.

 

That said, yes, Marwin will be on the team and will not be cut. But I do wish he were facing some kind of penalty for cheating, as the others did.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But a skunkweed will always be a skunkweed and instantly recognizable. 


#38 TFRazor

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:54 AM

 

I wonder if the Astros board is discussing whether Altuve and Springer should be on the roster this season.

I'm sure they're trying to move on from Bregman too. And Verlander. After all, even though he doesn't hit, he knew what they were doing. The little scamp.


#39 stringer bell

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:54 AM

 

That’s not really the same thing ... Polanco, Cruz and Pineda faced penalties for what they did. Some could argue it wasn’t enough, but they faced charges according to the rules. No players have yet to be punished for their part in the sign-stealing cheating. I agree that after this contract, Marwin’s career could be over, so maybe the league will take care of it that way. But until which time the league decides what to do with players involved, or his play on field declines, or his presence is an actual disruption in the clubhouse (and not our speculation that it will be), the FO will not do anything but let it play out. So, he’s on the team until he isn’t.

I agree that cheating by using PEDs and cheating by using illegal means to know what pitch is coming are not exactly the same, but both are against fair play. Marwin hasn't been convicted or charged with anything yet and even if he was, he played last year without such aid (presumably) and was the player he was. Some in this thread have said essentially "throw the bum out" because they assume he cheated in 2017. If so, do they have the same opinion on those players who were suspended for PED (and masking agent) use? 

 

If we are only discussing the merits of Marwin Gonzalez the player, of course he belongs on a 26-man roster and he'll most likely be a vital cog on a good team. 

 

If he is a disruption for the team (I really doubt this), that would be another matter altogether. The whole Astros Cheating Scandal has not been divulged. If it is much, much worse the league will have to take further action. If it stops where it is, the organization and it's players (including Marwin Gonzalez) will have a stain on them.


#40 howieramone2

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 09:30 AM

Why not divvy them up and make them play for Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Detroit, Miami, or Kansas City?