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Trading for Price and Betts

windows starting pitching trade market all in dreams
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#21 MMMordabito

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 12:42 PM

Switch out Lewis, Balazovic and Rooker for Gordon, Sands and Raley.If the Twins are taking on that much salary and the Red Sox want younger cost controlled players, then that's about all they should get.

 

I just don't see the FO taking a mile, after being given an inch with the Donaldson deal though.


#22 spycake

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 12:44 PM

 

Would the Pohlads ever eat this much money to go after a World Series championship?

I don't think the Twins are taking on this kind of salary (and I'm not sure if they should), but I also don't think this goes far enough toward a WS championship either. Betts is obviously very good, but Price is like a 2-3 WAR pitcher these days, if he's even healthy -- and he'd be taking up a massive amount of resources which you would probably need to get pitching elsewhere.

 

You might be better able to justify it if it was Sale instead of Price. Still probably too much money / prospects, and you'd still need to be confident in Sale's health, but as of 2019, he was still much closer to being a difference-making SP than Price.

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#23 rdehring

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 01:17 PM

To answer your question, No, No and He..ck No.

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#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:00 PM

Now that I think about it more, this ask from the Sox is pretty laughable.

Is there a single team in baseball *able* to take on $50m+ in contracts right now, much less one that is *willing* to take on $50m+ in contracts?

Almost all the teams that can handle that kind of payroll addition have recently scaled their payrolls to the point where they can’t do it right now.
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#25 RaoulDuke

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:13 PM

Price is an interesting piece by himself if he can be had for a 5-10 prospect or they eat a bunch of salary.But if they are going to spend the major prospect capital it would take to include Betts I think it would be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

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#26 Rosterman

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:24 PM

The pain is you get one expensive year of Betts. You lose Rosario, so you still need to replace leftfield in 2021. You get price. Maybe one or two expensive seasons. You lose at least one very promising pitcher and Royce Lewis. 

 

The Twins need to make hard decisions on Buxton and Berrios before moving high-end prospect talent. 

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#27 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:45 PM

I live in New England. Please don't bail out the Red Sox from the hole they've created for themselves.
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#28 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:06 PM

I just probably wouldn't even trade Lewis straight up for Betts. It'd be one thing if he was under control for another couple seasons, but one year of him isn't worth a ton IMO. Plus, it's likely he will be a greedy pig for his next contract and who is gonna want to pay him? Twins surely won't, nor should they. 

 

Red Sox are stuck with this. They are gonna have to either eat a large wad of money, or accept little to nothing for these guys if they want to move them. 

 

I doubt there's a team out there that would give up 2 high end prospects + in order to be able to fork over 120ish million dollars for one year of a great corner outfielder and a pitcher who may or may not even help this coming season, let alone the rest of his deal. 

 

My guess is that Betts is worth one guy in your top 10 plus another lottery pick. Price is worth no one unless they eat a decent chunk of his money. 

 

 

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#29 Tomj14

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:43 PM

 

The point is to not end up like the Red Sox, Cubs or Tigers as recent examples. Yes the Cubs and Red Sox won WS titles but the lasting effect of emptying their farm systems and blowing wads of money on expensive aging free agents and trade acquisitions catches up eventually.

I would argue that is exactly where the Twins want to be and that is a World Series champions. With that being said I don't think this is the deal that helps them get there. I much rather have Sale than Price.

As prospects the only two that matter to me are Balazovic and Lewis, and I would be willing to trade them but not for Price.


#30 Tomj14

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:50 PM

 

Switch out Lewis, Balazovic and Rooker for Gordon, Sands and Raley.If the Twins are taking on that much salary and the Red Sox want younger cost controlled players, then that's about all they should get.

 

I just don't see the FO taking a mile, after being given an inch with the Donaldson deal though.

that would be much better, but I still don't see it happening, So they Twins upgrade price over Homer, and one year of Betts, that is awful lot to give up and a ton to pay price.

I think if the FO could get Betts and Sales for some trade in between the original trade and yours, they probably would have done that instead of signing Donaldson. But after signing Donaldson I don't see the Twins taking on any real payroll.


#31 jkcarew

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 04:15 PM

Not enough concern here with losing Balazovic, IMO. Even when you have the window, you should be trying to steer away from dealing from the very top of an area of obvious organizational weakness. If the partner wants arguably our top starting pitching prospect (easy to argue right now, given Graterol's current status)...for one year of Mookie Betts...no thanks. Much more willing to consider if we're talking about our top one or two position/hitting prospects. Hitters we got.

 

 

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#32 Flipper1a

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 04:22 PM

I wouldn't mortgage the near future for those two and also tie up salary.Hard no on any Lewis, Larnach, Kirilloff, Balz, Duran, Alcala, and Graterol offers (basically top 5, 5-10 I wouldn't either).

 

Raley, Javier, Gordon, Raley, Wade, Cave---yes.


#33 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 04:26 PM

I would argue that is exactly where the Twins want to be and that is a World Series champions. With that being said I don't think this is the deal that helps them get there. I much rather have Sale than Price.
As prospects the only two that matter to me are Balazovic and Lewis, and I would be willing to trade them but not for Price.


Of course they want to be World Series champions. My argument is that it would be better to follow the Giants, Royals and Astros (minus the cheating) models of getting there with mostly homegrown talent on rookie or reasonable contracts so they can contend for multiple years. It feels like a lot of Twins fans want to see Falvey follow the Dombrowski model, empty the prospect cupboard and overpay in free agency, whatever it takes to win now. Even if they chose that course of action and actually won I have a feeling those same fans would be the first ones complaining when the bottom falls out and we’re back to tank mode. As a long time Twins and Wolves fan I’m tired of tank mode and glad that this FO seems to have a much more long-term focused approach.
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#34 TNTwinsFan

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 05:04 PM

I don't like the idea of trading away Balazovic...I think that kid's going to be a stud. Also, that's a LOT of prospect capital for 1 year of Betts and a #2 at best in Price that probably doesn't move the needle in the playoffs as much as they may think.

The one pitcher the Twins should have given a flyer to that they didn't, and can't now, is Alex Wood. I bet he pitches as well as David Price does this year... I vote "No" on this trade proposal.
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#35 jkcarew

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

 

Now that I think about it more, this ask from the Sox is pretty laughable.

If you're talking about the "“two high-end prospects just to front the deal" part of this...yes, laughable.

 

Clearly, Boston will consider Betts' expiring contract as kind of a last-chance opportunity to get themselves out from under Price's deal. The unrealistically high opening price is obligatory. But humorous nonetheless.


#36 Monkeypaws

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 05:30 PM

Lets help the Red Sox out of a salary jam and give up some of our best prospects to boot for a rental and an overpriced pitcher.

 

No thanks.


#37 Darius

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 05:55 PM

The only way I’m taking Price is if they eat half the contract and send me a prospect. If he’s with Betts, it seriously reduces what I’d give up.

Betts would look pretty good in the outfield. With Betts, Buxton, and Kepler you’re looking at one of the best defensive outfields of all time (assuming he or Kepler are just as good in left). The bat wouldn’t look too shabby slotted in for Rosario, either. However, there is zero chance of retaining Betts beyond 2020. So, I’m not rolling out the red carpet in terms of prospects there.

The whole discussion is an exercise in futility. There is absolutely no way the ownership OKs adding another $20+ million dollar contract to the payroll, let alone two. I can only imagine the amount of Rolaids the Pohlad clan has gone through after adding Donaldson and surpassing $130M. The FO will never give up the prospects necessary for Boston to eat payroll (they’ve basically said they’re not trading Lewis, Kirilloff, etc).

#38 Darius

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 06:24 PM

While I believe the Twins should be closer to $160m in payroll, this would put them around $180m, which is probably unreasonable.



Unreasonable compared to what?

We always compare this team to other markets in terms of what it can spend. But what about other pro teams in this market:

I’m sure there is more recent data, but in 2015 the Twins made over $21M in profit. No other professional sports team in the market netted more than $7 (Vikings about $5M, T-Wolves about $6M, Wild took a loss).

It would be unreasonable to Pohlads, who like to maintain their massive profits. But, even after signing Donaldson, it can still be argued that what they are doing in terms of payroll is unreasonable.

Keep in mind they bought the team for $44M. They’ve made a billion in unrealized appreciation and they make 50% return on their initial investment annually (based on 2015 numbers....I’m sure the profit in 2019 was closer to $40-$50M). Demanding a return on your investment of that magnitude is not only unreasonable, it’s downright greedy. Especially when a significant portion of that return was initially financed by the taxpayer (Target Field).

I’ve given the Cheap Pohalds a break for a few days because of Donaldson, but let’s not act like these guys are anywhere near blowing open the bank vault, here. They’re still Scrooge McDuck personified.

#39 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 06:30 PM

 

Unreasonable compared to what?

We always compare this team to other markets in terms of what it can spend. But what about other pro teams in this market:

I’m sure there is more recent data, but in 2015 the Twins made over $21M in profit. No other professional sports team in the market netted more than $7 (Vikings about $5M, T-Wolves about $6M, Wild took a loss).

It would be unreasonable to Pohlads, who like to maintain their massive profits. But, even after signing Donaldson, it can still be argued that what they are doing in terms of payroll is unreasonable.

Keep in mind they bought the team for $44M. They’ve made a billion in unrealized appreciation and they make 50% return on their initial investment annually (based on 2015 numbers....I’m sure the profit in 2019 was closer to $40-$50M). Demanding a return on your investment of that magnitude is not only unreasonable, it’s downright greedy. Especially when a significant portion of that return was initially financed by the taxpayer (Target Field).

I’ve given the Cheap Pohalds a break for a few days because of Donaldson, but let’s not act like these guys are anywhere near blowing open the bank vault, here. They’re still Scrooge McDuck personified.

Oh, just stop. That's not what I said nor am I defending the Pohlads in any way.

 

My point is that, from a purely competitive long-term standpoint, going from $130m to $180m in a single offseason on a team that needs to continue to offer raises to its home-grown players enters unreasonable territory unless you then expect the Twins to be at a $200m payroll in 2022.

 

Besides, in 2019, a $180m payroll would have put the Twins fifth in all of baseball.

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#40 Twins1964

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 10:15 PM

Good Morning,
 
Per the MLBTR article linked, how would y'all feel about trying to swing a deal with the Red Sox for Mookie Betts and David Price? It appears the Sox are trying to package them together for a couple of high end prospects and it could be a nice opportunity for the Twins.
 
What does a deal look like in this case? Would the Pohlads ever eat this much money to go after a World Series championship?
 
My proposed deal would look something like this:
 
Twins Receive:
Mookie Betts (OF)

  • 2020 Salary - $27,000,000
  • Free Agent at end of 2020 Season
David Price (SP)
  • 2020-2022 Salary - $32,000,000
  • Free Agent at end of 2022 Season
  • Red Sox retain 20% of salary ($6,400,000 per year, $19,200,000 total)
Thaddeus Ward (RHP)
  • Red Sox #10 Prospect, 2018 5th Round Pick from UCF
  • Rule 5 Draft Eligible: December 2021
  • Projected to hit the Majors in Late 2021
Red Sox Receive:
 
Eddie Rosario (OF)
  • 2020 Salary - $7,750,000
  • Free Agent at end of 2021 Season
Fernando Romero (RHP)
  • Pre-Arb with 6 years of control remaining
  • Former top prospect
Royce Lewis (SS/CF)
  • Twins #1 Prospect (per TD)
  • Pre-arb with 6 years of control remaining
  • ETA of Late 2021/2022
Jordan Balazovic (RHP)
  • Twins #4 Prospect (per TD)
  • Pre-arb with 6 years of control remaining
  • ETA of Late 2021
Brent Rooker (1B/OF)
  • Twins #14 Prospect (per TD)
  • Pre-arb with 6 years of control remaining
  • ETA of Mid to Late 2020
Wander Javier (SS)
  • Twins #20 Prosper (per TD)
  • Pre-arb with 6 years of control remaining
  • ETA of Late 2022-2023
This deal offers the Red Sox some much needed prospect capital and salary relief, as well as a cheap replacement for Mookie Betts in Eddie Rosario. I feel JD Martinez could really help Eddie become a dynamite player in Boston. This deal also offers Romero a much needed change of scenery and an opportunity to get back on track. 
 
For the Twins, this takes their "wide open window" and shatters the frame around it. Betts is a former MVP in the prime of his career who can catapult this team to the best record in baseball. While we probably won't be able to re-sign him, one year of Betts is enough to make this team the definitive favorite to come out of the American League. Secondly, which is crazy, is the addition on a legitimate #2-3 starter in David Price. He provides much needed help at the top of the rotation and has postseason credibility that goes back over a decade.
 
It might take a one or two more low end prospects from the Twins to push the needle on this, but I think this could be a framework to getting a massive lineup upgrade and a very good starting pitcher.
 
Thanks for any comments or ideas you may have!

 
Utterly ridiculous. Makes no sense at all. An absolute waste of space. Twins are not set up for “ win this year “ mentality. Unlike Fletcher’s Wild trade deadline abortions, Twins front office is not that stupid. Garbage article.



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